12. Infernal Suite - Isabella Temperville

[Aaron] Hello and welcome to the Theorist Composer Collaboration, a podcast interview series highlighting modern composers and their compositions, hosted by music theorists. My name is Aaron D’Zurilla, a graduate music theory student at Florida State University, and I will be your host for today. The music that you were just listening to is an excerpt from the album titled Infernal Suite by the composer Isabella Temperville, who, alongside her music, is the featured guest for this episode. That leads me to welcome Isabella Temperville herself to the program. How are you?

[Isabella] I'm doing good. How are you?

[Aaron] I'm doing great. I'm excited to have you here for many reasons. I, of course, am very interested in your music, but as we're going to talk about, this is quite a special episode, and I'm going to give a preamble to everyone listening. You probably can tell from the length of this podcast, but this is almost, no, is definitely is going to be the longest episode out of all the ones so far on the TCC. So buckle in, get some snacks or drinks. It's going to be a very good time. Before we get into the meat and potatoes of the music, Isabella, introduce yourself to the audience, your background personally, professionally, academically, whatever you choose.

[Isabella] Perfect. So I'm Isabella. I am a second year graduate student studying music composition at Louisiana State University. Gosh, I actually started writing music in high school, but I've been interested in music ever since elementary school, and that's mostly because I've grown up playing a lot of video games. So it was around the fifth grade period where I started delving into music, not necessarily for listening, but for picking it apart and figuring out what makes music sound good. But yeah, that's just a short little summary on that, I guess.

[Aaron] Yeah, so you're doing your master's in composition. Is it LSU, you said?

[Isabella] Yeah, LSU.

[Aaron] Yeah. Where did you do your bachelor's, your undergrad?

[Isabella] Oh gosh, so I did my bachelor's degree over at Christopher Newport University in Virginia. It's a smaller liberal arts college, like only 5,000 students.

[Aaron] I was about to say, I hope you don't blame me if I don't know where that is, or what that is.

[Isabella] No, it's literally fine. It's in this little city called Newport News. So yeah, she's a pretty small college, so I wouldn't be surprised if people didn't know what that was or where it was.

[Aaron] Fair enough. Well, you know, I've spoken to a handful of people about this, and I have the experience of going from a small program. I did my first two years of my undergrad at a community college, and then I went to University of Florida, which although it's a large school, the music program relative to schools of its size was small, and then going to Florida State University in the music theory department, especially for a music theory department, it's huge. And the College of Music itself is very big. What was the transition or the experience like going from a small liberal arts college in one part of the country to a pretty big one in a different part of the country?

[Isabella] So it was honestly kind of a shock to me because I was so used to being in a very small studio class. There were only 10 music composition students studying in the program, and going from like 10 students to 30 students, that's a huge transition. But also at the same time, it was both intimidating and exciting in the sense that like, oh, there are more people like me to kind of mingle with and to collaborate with. So like I said, it's a little overwhelming, but at the same time, you can reap a lot of cool opportunities with more people with more diverse backgrounds, because not to, like, throw shade at my old school, but it was not a very diverse school, to say the least. But I mean, overall, I really like it over here. If anything, I like this program a lot better than I like my undergrad program, but I guess that's to be expected, just with, like, a master's degree in general.

[Aaron] It's a different experience for sure. And I can definitely understand the size of the colleague pool. For example, at my, at State College of Florida for my first two years, I didn't even know what a studio was or a string studio because I was the only string student, not just violin, the only string student. So that was a little lonely in that fact. So then when I went to University of Florida, and there was a studio for each different instrument, that was a wild experience. And at University of Florida, I was one of two in the entire all four years, music theory undergrads, one of two. So then coming into a program that had, and there was only one dedicated music theory professor at the time at University of Florida. So then going to FSU with a big faculty and a whole bunch of students. That's a lot. But so I guess this delves a bit into your background as well, or it typically does, is how would you describe your music or yourself as a composer?

[Isabella] Okay, so I had to like, I have to really think about this question because I've never really been asked to describe my own music.

[Aaron] Really?

[Isabella] Um, no. 

[Aaron] I'm kind of surprised by that.

[Isabella] Yeah, it's so easy to describe other people's works. But then when it comes to me, I have such a hard time, like just putting it into words, probably because I'm with myself all the time, and I'm just so used to it that it just, like it just is.

[Aaron] I'm surprised even in your master's degree interviews, really?

[Isabella] I mean, what did they ask me? They didn't ask me to describe my music. It was more so, like, they described it to me like what they experienced with my portfolio. But I actually did think about this a little bit. I would definitely describe my music as very leitmotif based because that, like, leitmotifs in general are very much like what I like to implement into my works. I always associate specific concepts or ideas with, like, a theme that will develop along the course of the piece or later be referenced in a different piece that's kind of about the same concept or connected to it in whatever way. And that definitely comes a lot from listening to video game music growing up, just thinking of themes and those leitmotifs and things like that. So I would very much describe it as very leitmotif based. I don't know how else to really put it. I don't know. That's a really tough question for me to be completely honest. I think part of the reason that's such a tough question for me is because when I was studying music during my undergraduate degree, I had to write so many different styles of music that I just couldn't pinpoint what was authentically me. What does my music sound like? Is this music that my professor is telling me to write and I'm just doing this, or is it actually coming from me authentically? I think that's also where...

[Aaron] That's a really good point. Music theorists also run into that because unless if you're in a real specialty program or you somehow, through the grace of God, find time in your schedule to do full music theory research, it's also hard to figure out what your own profile of interest,  other than just interests, like saying, I somewhat specialize in this and I can show this to prove that. That's a very difficult thing. I don't even know if that can really be solved. That's just an issue that undergrads or people leaving undergrad have to deal with sometimes. It's not fun. That's what grad school is though, is being able to further mold that.

[Isabella] No, and I think it's been a very good experience because I'm actually learning what kind of music I like to write and I've noticed that a lot of the things that I actually get joy out of writing, they're very electroacoustic based, like I said, very leitmotif based. Yeah, I think right now I'm still trying to figure out what my identity as a composer is. So, back to the question, that's not really something I'm able to concretely answer because I personally don't know what kind of composer I am just yet because I'm currently figuring that out in my program, if that makes sense.

[Aaron] Completely understandable and a very honest answer. It's good to be honest, not just to have an honest answer, but also be honest with yourself that here in grad school, that's the point of going to grad school, right? At least especially for a composer is to develop those things. So I'm interested in the video game aspect. What are some of, or some soundtracks?

[Isabella] Oh gosh, okay. So, first video game soundtrack that I've ever taken inspiration from is Kingdom Hearts. Gosh, I love Kingdom Hearts so much. I'm so sorry. I also take a lot of inspiration from the Dark Souls series. Really like that soundtrack a whole lot. Assassin's Creed, Skyrim, just, I don't know, I'm just throwing things out there that have like, even if it's, like, minutely like the things that have influenced me when I go to write music, I would definitely say those franchises. Oh, and Final Fantasy most definitely.

[Aaron] I have to say out of all the, you know, I recently looked at my play time on the Switch. I was, I started out playing video games on the Wii in the mid 2000s. I graduated to an Xbox 360, then got an Xbox One, and then something happened with the Xbox and I got a, my parents gifted me for birthday money for a new console. I decided to go for a Switch instead and I'm happy I did so. But combined with the amount of hours I've played Skyrim on the Switch, combined with how much I probably played it on the 360 and the Xbox One, it is by far my most played game, not even close. It's almost a bit embarrassing, the hundreds of hours. And before Skyrim, I was a Dark Souls fanatic through and through. Which one's your favorite game out of the three? You can throw Bloodborne in there or Demon's Souls if you want.

[Isabella] I want to say Dark Souls 3 just because that, such a, like, a crap answer. To me, that one had the best music. It felt the most immersive to me, maybe not so much like, maybe the graphics were part of it, but I also really liked the boss design in that game. I feel like that game has top tier boss design, which I really appreciate when games actually care about their art style. So that's also super important to me. But I would definitely say Dark Souls 3 out of the ones that I've played so far. That might change when I play Elden Ring, but we'll see.

[Aaron] Oh, I just said I only have a switch and a computer barely powerful enough to run this podcast. So yeah, I'm not going to be playing Elden Ring anytime soon, but man, I really need to. And I said I was all over Xbox. I really want to play Bloodborne, which is only available on PlayStation.

[Isabella] It's so good.

[Aaron] I so need to. And also I just want to give a, I should have maybe a little bit before, forewarning. More than just the things that are in this music, there's going to be plenty of geeking out about all sorts of different exterior geek culture things such as video games here. So if anyone doesn't understand these references, I apologize, but it's part of the natural flow of this. I promise you all, stick with it. It's okay. And don't, don't feel bad you don't know the intricacies of Dark Souls lore. It's okay. Well, okay. And you said Dark Souls 3 is a crap answer. I understand that this is not the best opinion, but for me, it's Dark Souls 2. I know. I see your face. I get it.

[Isabella] No.

[Aaron] I get it. I, and I just, that is, I'm not that great at video games. I'm going to say I play on a daily basis. I play Skyrim and Animal Crossing. I'm not the, like, the most competitive active gamer, but no one could beat me in Dark Souls 2 PVP. I was a demon.

[Isabella] That’s crazy. 

[Aaron] I could, I, I know, I understand what your reaction is. In terms of soundtrack, this might be kind of a basic take, but I still prefer the first Dark Souls or Bloodborne. But I agree with you that the, the boss design and the enemy, the world boss enemy design of Dark Souls 3 is, like, almost unbeatable. So yeah, we can agree on that. Where the hell were we? Okay. Let me say, this is also why I knew it was going to be long. I love talking about this sort of stuff.

[Isabella] Yeah, same.

[Aaron] Plus there's very few people that I've met in music academia who know freaking Dark Souls lore either.

[Isabella] Are you serious?

[Aaron] I know, right?

[Isabella] You would think that there'd be so many nerd extraordinaires who would know absolutely everything about that.

[Aaron] There's a fair amount about Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts, I will say though.

[Isabella] Oh, Slay, perfect. 

[Aaron] Well, how about this? You said that can't concretely define your music or the sound of it because you're still developing, which is completely fair. I'm going to ask this question just to, as some point of comparison. There's a problem of comparing new composers only with older ones and like, oh, this sounds like Beethoven. Oh, this sounds like Mozart. Oh, this sounds like this movement of Mahler 3. But I guess I'm going to add to that problem a little bit, but I just want to ask who are some of your favorite composers, whether from the classical canon, current composers or video game?

[Isabella] Okay, perfect. I feel like Yoko Shimomura is a no-brainer because she did Kingdom Hearts. It's like the core of all my inspiration. Nobuo Uematsu, super cool. I'm trying to think of them off the top of my head. Yuta Kitamura, Dark Souls 3. I also really like Jeremy Soule and Jesper Kyd. Those are all people that I believe are still alive. In terms of like old dudes who have been dead for like 200 years, not even 200 years. I, believe it or not, I really like Shostakovich.

[Aaron] I wouldn't say believe it or not. That's a very agreeable.

[Isabella] Really? Okay.

[Aaron] Well, I don't know what you've experienced, but at least I think for people our age, he's pretty popular.

[Isabella] I didn't know that. That's crazy.

[Aaron] Or at least, I guess some of the people, some of the music theorists around me really love some Shostakovich, at least.

[Isabella] Yeah, he's pretty good. He's pretty good. Who else? Crap. I'm literally, as soon as I get asked this question, like, I blank. I'm trying to think of, like, who I've been listening to recently, who's a little more of that, like, old classical canon type stuff. I can't pronounce this guy's name, but he has a piano concerto in E major and the second movement is like, like you're touching heaven with that one. I can't even pronounce his name, but Moscowsky, something like that. I don't know. I had a friend show me one of his pieces and I was like, okay, this is perfect. I'm going to listen to this forever, but I literally cannot pronounce his name.

[Aaron] I'll go in and I'll find it and I'll edit back in a clip of not overtop, but just saying that would be funny if I did overtop, but no, no, no.

[Isabella] That would be really funny.

[Aaron] I'll go back and figure out who that is. Hello everyone. This is as promised, Aaron from the future while editing, and it turns out that the proper pronunciation of this composer is Moritz Moschkowski and specifically the piece that Isabella was talking about is piano concerto number two in E major, opus 59 composed in 1898. That's again, Moritz Moschkowski. Anyways, back to the episode. So okay. I teased it a bit at the beginning and it's, well, I suppose time to get into the meat of it in that the Infernal Suite is an album, but it's not just an album. It's a small piece of something much bigger. It is a part of a multi, multimedia, not just narrative, but world. And so I'm going to leave this open to you. Can you explain what makes Infernal Suite such an interesting and very multifaceted thing for analysis?

[Isabella] Sure. So the best way that I can describe just Infernal Suite by itself, it's a collection of works, but I consider it a soundtrack for a narrative that I've been working on. For all intents and purposes, whenever I say that a work of mine is canon to this narrative, it means that the work exists within this world that I've created. And if this world were to ever be developed into, like, a TV show, a movie, a video game, what have you, these pieces would be the soundtrack to that world. So that's kind of how I would describe just what Infernal Suite is, or at least like this particular collection of works. They are, they’re canon to this little universe that's, like, made up in my head.

[Aaron] What came first? It's almost like asking chicken or egg, but the narrative, the world, or the concept of the album?

[Isabella] So the narrative actually, okay, this is so embarrassing. I promised I was never going to go on record and say this.

[Aaron] Oh, you don't have to. You don't have to if you don't want to.

[Isabella] I'm just saying like, Christ, it's just easier for me to explain this way. So technically, the narrative has existed since I was in middle school, but I'm not going to say like what, because the narrative originally was a fanfiction. I'm never going to say what it was a fan fiction of. But in 2021, I was like, wait, I remember this one time I wrote this, like, cool little story, this little narrative. But if I took it and I removed it from the source material and I made it like its own thing, and so I completely, like, revamped the whole thing, it has nothing to do with the original source anymore. So the narrative came first, like, the actual story. So that was in, like, 2021. As I was developing the narrative, I was, like, okay, this world that the characters live in, where the story takes place, I need to flesh that out a little bit because later in the story, it gets all into like, oh, how was the world created? Like who governs these laws and these rules? Like, who does all that? And so I started developing like an actual lore to it, which, oh my God, that's literally take, like this, developing the lore part has taken me literally forever because it's just, there's so many things you have to consider when coming up with, like, a literal Genesis to a world that, like, does not exist. It's a lot of brain power and that's where a lot of my time has gone. So those two things came first, the narrative and then the actual lore that surrounds the narrative. The album, that was something that I, or at least like this concept of canon music, that was something that I started when I began grad school. So that came last, believe it or not. It's, I don't know, it feels a little counterintuitive.

[Aaron] I Find it interesting that the narrative was before the lore.

[Isabella] Yeah.

[Aaron] I believe it makes sense that the album was last if it's a soundtrack to the existing ideas, but the narrative first before the lore is fascinating because then when you're creating the lore, you're, like, kind of micro editing your narrative and like, well, this doesn't make sense, well this needs to happen for that to happen. I can see how that might be a lot of mental work.

[Isabella] Yeah. 100%.

[Aaron] So we talked a bit about your musical inspirations. So obviously we have the element of narrative and world building that goes beyond just the aural landscape. And so I would assume part of it is the narrative in video games and some of the ones that you listed before, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Dark Souls. But what are some of your narrative inspirations and things that you look to, whether that be authors, storytelling, themes, and so on?

[Isabella] Right. So this is a little bit embarrassing. I don't read as much as I should. 

[Aaron] If we were to poll the majority of people that probably listen, I think everyone would agree with that. I don't think you should be embarrassed about that.

[Isabella] Fair enough. But one that I can think of off the top of my head in terms of, like, in terms of, like, novel narratives, definitely, I don't know if you've heard of it, the Poppy War trilogy was a, I don't want to say inspiration, yes, but it kind of gave me ideas on how to build lore. That's a very good book series by R.F. Kwong.

[Aaron] I'm not familiar.

[Isabella] It's so good. But it's also, like, really sad. Anyways, so that's one. I think the world building in that book series is very good. I'm trying to think of, like, other books. I don't want to say, like, any Sarah J. Maas books because I've been reading through them. I don't like them, but I just, I don't know. That's just what I've been reading lately. It's whatever. But in terms of, like, other mediums for storytelling, this is, like, super embarrassing, but I used to watch a lot of anime. I still do kind of, but I'm very interested in, like, power systems and the power systems in anime always, like, really intrigued me, like especially in, like, Naruto or Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Bleach, like that kind of thing.

[Aaron] Do you mean like, I'm not very familiar with anime, but do you mean like societal power structure or the power structure between different characters within the show? Like one is more powerful than the other or?

[Isabella] Oh, like special abilities, that type of thing.

[Aaron] Ah, okay. Okay.

[Isabella] Yeah. So that's always been, like, super interesting to me and how they incorporate power systems, like, abilities into the actual narrative because oftentimes the power system is very important to, like, what's actually going on in the story. So that to me really stuck out and that's definitely something that I pulled from when I am working on this narrative, 100%.

[Aaron] Sure, sure. I wrote this in my notes to you, but although I don't have, I kind of stopped reading fiction after middle school. There's no particular reason why it just so happened then, but I was a diehard Percy Jackson fan, quite a while. So although that's a little bit different, I understand, and as I said, I'm a very big Dark Souls fan. So I really can appreciate the idea of, not just a strong mythical narrative with different power structures between characters, but also the world building element. I don't think anyone would say, you know, probably the reason why Harry Potter is so prevailing is because the world building is brilliant, although I'm no literary critic in the slightest, you know, something like The Hunger Games, maybe a little bit less so than something like Harry Potter or Percy Jackson or something like that. I kind of fell off once it got into some of the Roman saga with Percy Jackson. I don't know if you're familiar with any of the books, but the story, it kept feeling like the story ended and then it kept going and the world was ending every chapter and it just wasn't, you know, it's like a TV show that goes on a little bit too long. No offense, Rick Riordan, again, I'm a music theorist, nothing to do with literature. I was awful at those classes in high school and in college, so don't take my word for it at all.

[Isabella] I mean, they know they're going to get money from the pre-existing audience, so why not write more books to collect more money?

[Aaron] I can't wait for Diary of a Movie Kid number 28.

[Isabella] Perfect.

[Aaron] Perfect. So, all that being said about how Infernal Suite is a soundtrack to an existing world or newly created song that comes from yourself, that has a narrative and lore building of the world. And we're going to be looking at the album, of course, and the individual tracks within them, but I mean, the audience would be missing a whole lot if they did not understand at least the lore of the world to get, you know, the vibes. But also, it's a really cool story in my opinion. I will also say, Isabella, I think I told you this in the preliminary meeting that we had, but when I saw your posts and I listened through the album, it was when I was looking for new possible guests of people who I didn't already know. I did not know there was a narrative tied to this in the slightest. I know you wrote that on some of your social posts. I just thought it was like a concept album. I didn't know there was a story to it. So then when I found out that there was this entire world behind it, it felt like a special gem, which it is. It certainly is. And so, much prior to this, I got permission from Isabella and the honor to receive your raw notes and outline of what this world is, which I mean, I'm a guy on the internet. I'm surprised, but I'm really thankful that you did that. And so, that adds some extra insight and so thank you very much for that privilege. And I asked permission if I could write essentially a little script of a narrative introduction to the lore of the world. And as Isabella made clear to me, this is not necessarily the narrative that's a little bit different and she will be talking about that soon, but I am now going to give a dramatic reading with some contextual atmospheric music from the album of the lore of Infernal Suite and this entire world, which has taken essentially a rewritten version of Isabella's own lore notes. So here we go. In the beginning of this world, there was the God Soul, an entity born from nothing and originating from a vacant inanimate universe. Although coming from nothing, the God Soul bears the creation and manifestation of all life with every living entity sharing a fragment from it. When such entities wither, die, or otherwise end, their fragment returns to the eternal God Soul for a new life and purpose. Within this cycle of death and rebirth, humans stand as the most advanced direct manifestations of the God Soul. Not all human souls are equal in their size and potential, however, as exceptional human souls have the ability to resist the immediate return to the God Soul and instead reincarnate into the form of angels. These beings are both immortal and hold the ability to freely travel across multiple planes of existence and being. Upon creation, these angelic beings are granted knowledge beyond the normal human and gifted a single blessing in the form of a special ability meant to manipulate the world around them. Although the number of such beings in the world is limited and the honor is great, they were all once human, and human nature cannot so simply be erased. Cosmic knowledge, one of the blessings of being reincarnated as an angel, is boundless in its potential, except for one rule. That cosmic knowledge shall never challenge its ultimate source, the God Soul. It is only a matter of time for human nature to challenge this rule. There were three angels, Michael, Gabriel, and Lucifer, who found particular interest in this boundary, this eternal challenge of their own power. Michael, in particular, however, sought this power and challenge as more than just a wistful rumination. He corralled Gabriel and Lucifer to action, with the three deeming themselves the Archangels. Lucifer surmised that an effective way to control the power of the God Soul, without directly tampering with it, is to control the manifestations of it, pure fragments of its being, which so happen to be the highest creations of the God Soul, humans. If humans dedicate their praise, purpose, and worship to an entity, to something other than the God Soul, that other entity gains its influence and power. Eager to enact this idea, Michael, the instigator of the Archangels, went to the human named Abraham, creating what is known as the first contract between an angel and human, transferring the God Soul fragment of Abraham to the control of the Archangel, Michael. Abraham met Michael with the impression that he was a God, and in an act of playful cruelty, Michael compelled Abraham to sacrifice his son, Isaac. This pleased Michael and the other Archangels, who went on to form contracts with Isaac and Ishmael on their own. The Archangels agreed to consume these three human souls together to symbolize their commitment to their cause in what is called the right of consumption, siphoning the fragments of the God Soul for their own, tasting even just a small fragment of power beyond their means. But Lucifer saw something different after the consumption. Lucifer experienced a premonition, a warning of stringing far away from the God Soul, and what it could mean for the future. Lucifer, not disclosing what he saw, split away from this pact, but failed to persuade the other two from their climb to power. Although now wary, Gabriel stood by the side of Michael. It is from here, after the meeting between Gabriel and Abraham, this right of consumption and the splitting of the Archangels, that all of the Abrahamic religions find their origin. Michael and Gabriel continued their pursuits in consuming fragments of the God Soul, gaining its power, while Lucifer rallied other angels to challenge the duo in their quest for power. Lucifer and these allied angels were laid to waste with little effort by the two power-hungry Archangels in a test of his power, and in spite of this perceived rebellion, Michael laid across the land the recusant's curse to all of the angels allied with Lucifer that day, creating what we now call demons. The newly ascendant angels, who appeared after the defeat of Lucifer, saw Michael as God himself without much of a way to know any better. Michael cast a haze over these new angels' cosmic knowledge, tainting it to his own will and purposes. Others who knew better, ones who were angels before the fall of Lucifer, did not challenge Michael out of fear of the recusant's curse. The death of Lucifer, although a sign of the dark times, sparked something more, a time of hope, resistance, and, ultimately, war. The Infernal War, as it is called, is waged between demons and angels, a toil which encompasses all parts of life and being itself, angels, demons, humans, factions, religions, death, despair, and, of course, war. There is, however, a hope, as although the horrifying excesses of human nature persevere even through the best of graces, the best can also peer through the worst. But that’s a story for another time. Alright, so I hope everyone enjoyed that. That is, of course, again, the lore backstory of Infernal Suite and this entire world, created by Isabella Temperville, and although I'm the one who compiled that together, Isabella's the one who read over it, made sure it was correct, and, of course, the one who actually created the intellectual property. So thank you again, Isabella, for allowing me to, not only directly see it on my own privately, but being able to verbally share it and share it with the world. But I've been talking a lot now, but can you just talk about it a bit? Maybe add some more context, some of the lore beats, but talk about this world.

[Isabella] Sure. There's already so much to cover, and I think you condensed it very well. You condensed it better than I would have been able to, so props to you for that, that was really good. But I'm trying to think of what else to talk about without making this episode, like, four hours long, because I could literally sit here and just explain every little nuance. So...

[Aaron] Yeah, this is not the Joe Rogan experience for many good reasons, but especially the length.

[Isabella] Yeah, 100%. But I will say the lore itself, you can probably tell just based off of that dramatic reading, it has been one of the most daunting things to come up with. Just making stuff up, it's so difficult, but not just making stuff up, making things connect. That to me is, that's a really big exercise in just world building, making sure all of your elements connect. 

[Aaron] Would you be comfortable with sharing an example of a disconnect that you had to overcome?

[Isabella] Yeah, so this was a really big one. So in the little lore reading, the first contract is mentioned, but contracts are actually going to be a huge part of the actual narrative. And I needed a system or a way for human souls to either go to a respective angel or a demon type thing for contracts. And just having to figure out what determines where the soul goes, how much dedication is enough to solidify the contract, all of that was so difficult to figure out, especially just breaking a soul's connection to the God soul in the first place, because that is the predetermined route. For me, it was figuring out how to break that route and have it make sense. And I honestly thought that, oh, religious devotion, that's a contract on its own. At first, I felt that that was a super bullshit answer, because I'm like, they can just do it that way. But I think, when I think about it, some people, you can believe in something so hard that that's where you want to go when you die, type thing. So I figured if it's that important to someone, then it changes the route. I feel like that was enough to justify that. But honestly, that was something that took me months to figure out, just how to explain the routes, the soul routes, and how do souls break away from the God soul, essentially. So that was, oh my god. See, and now I feel like I've been talking about it forever now. That's one thing that could also be a whole hour just explaining that process. 

[Aaron] Well, how about this? I'm going to go a little bit rapid fire. I have just some small questions about how some things work, even just based off of the lore thing that we talked about. So with the contracts, the one between Michael and Abraham is the first contract. So can the contracts be agreed to disingenuously or does the human that is binded to the contract have to legitimately praise and support and be with the angel? Or is it like, can they, oh my gosh, this is a weird thing to say, but can it be like Shrek and Shrek 4 with Rumpelstiltskin where he's, like, kind of apprehensive and signs it away and it happens? Or do you have to be fully on board with the contract?

[Isabella] You have to be fully on board because it is like a matter of free will. If you want it so bad, then you have it type thing. Like you have to actively give yourself over to this contract. It's not something that can be like, oh, like, yeah, let me just, let me just make a contract. Like you have to fully be in it to win it type thing.

[Aaron] Okay. That makes sense. That makes sense. And how about, so this new breed or era of angels that are becoming reincarnated into angels from the God Soul post Lucifer's defeat, are they indoctrinated into the ideas of obtaining God Soul fragments for themselves or does Gabriel not allow that? And is it just him who's allowed?

[Isabella] Yeah, so not to like be annoying, but it's Michael who-

[Aaron] Oh dang it. Yes. Yes.

[Isabella] It’s ok. It's literally fine.

[Aaron] You are the lore master. 

[Isabella] Gabriel and Michael are in cahoots.

[Aaron] So Gabriel is the main sadistic antagonist, right?

[Isabella] So Michael is the main sadistic antagonist and Gabriel is just kind of tagging along.

[Aaron] Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so does Michael not allow the new, like, is that part of their rule system or is that something that Michael and Gabriel are keeping to themselves?

[Isabella] That is something Michael and Gabriel are actually keeping to themselves. So when the haze was casted over the cosmic knowledge, all incoming angels, they ascended believing, okay, Michael is literally God and our job is to make sure that these human souls get to heaven and you find out that heaven isn't really a thing, it's just a concept for people to believe in, to want to make these religious contracts. So the angels believe that these souls are also going to heaven. They don't know that it's just Michael consuming them off screen.

[Aaron] Yes.

[Isabella] So they're just as, like, in the dark, but they believe that Michael is God so they'll do, like, whatever he says.

[Aaron] And of course, I would assume punish and clearly from the infernal, the inception of the infernal war, punish any naysayers who speak against their God, Michael.

[Isabella] Yes.

[Aaron] And, okay, so Lucifer has perished. Is that permanent or is that a question mark? Is he gone? It is, and also, I thought that the angels were immortal. So what does his defeat mean?

[Isabella] Right. So the way I explain it is that angels, yes, technically, they're all immortal, meaning that they live forever, however, they can be killed.

[Aaron] Okay. 

[Isabella] So that you are immortal until you are killed. People die when they are killed. I don't know if you've seen that meme, but so in the same vein, angels die when they are killed. And, you know, gosh, I'm, like, trying to, like, get back on topic here. I started… What was the original question? I'm so sorry.

[Aaron] Oh, no, I was asking. So is Lucifer gone? Yeah, well, he was killed. You answered it. He's dead.

[Isabella] However, if you remember, if you remember, you know, soul fragments or God soul fragments, which are souls are supposed to go back to the God soul. I know Lucifer is technically a demon. However, they, before the infernal war, they didn't know that angels and demons could actually be killed. And when Lucifer was killed, they're like, oh, he his soul, like, probably got recycled into the God soul. That means in a couple hundred years or a thousand years, he's going to come back and we don't know, like, how, in what form. So he's just chilling up there, say, like, how he comes back. But he's not completely gone.

[Aaron] And so is he a martyr for the demons?

[Isabella] Oh, yeah, 100%. I think that it was his demise that really instigated more violence between angels and demons, especially in this war. His death was kind of like, it was just it was such a huge, like, instigator for that violence. And then there's this whole other part about like morning star demons, which I don't even want to get into because it'll take me forever to explain. But they just, I don't know. Gosh, it's so much.

[Aaron] It’s okay. 

[Isabella] I'm struggling to talk about it because it's, you know, there's, there's just a lot, a lot of moving parts, I think.

[Aaron] Yeah, yeah.

[Isabella] But 

[Aaron] Of course. 

[Isabella] Yeah.

[Aaron] Okay, here's another question about Lucifer. Why did he not share his premonition? Was it out of instinct, fear, confusion, not trusting the other two? Why did he not share that premonition?

[Isabella] So that's actually something that I haven't written in yet. I know that I want it to be kept a secret. I just don't have a reason to why he kept it a secret yet, if that makes sense. 

[Aaron] Fair enough. It'll come to you. Sure. Let me, because my next big question is going to be about what the narrative actually is, because this is all background, essentially.

[Isabella] It is all background, yeah.

[Aaron] Before we move on, I want to just think if I have any more on the spot questions of these, you're right. There's a lot of very many moving parts. Oh, okay. I have a question about this. So I'm thinking about the size of the armies. You know, there's factions and sub factions within each broader category, as you said, Morningstar demons. So we're not going to get into that so much. But I'm thinking about for there still to be demons up against an army of angels who've stuck with Michael and Gabriel and then continuous reincarnation or ascension into angelhood, they're all automatically on the side of Michael because they don't know any better due to Michael's tampering. So, are there, is it a rare thing or is it a common blight among angels to be cursed with the recusance curse to become a demon? Because you're not created as a demon. It's something that's put upon you.

[Isabella] Okay, so that's really interesting that you bring that up because demons have a fun little exception. The recusance curse, it messes a lot of things up because it's, so Michael, when he created this curse, it also, like, messed with a couple of, like, actual cosmic things because demons were never supposed to exist in the first place and he brought something into existence. So of course, it's going to, it's going to mess things up. Demons are created when obviously, like, when an angel is charged with the highest crime possible, which is defiance against Michael, aka God in this case, they are inflicted with the recusance curse. However, if a demon goes and they, like, fall in love with a human, the child that they have is immediately a demon. There's no like half-seize or anything. So it's kind of yeah, that that's also how they are brought into this world.

[Aaron] Okay, okay. I suppose we could keep toiling over the same information and find even more questions and so on. But before we move on, about the lore, and so it's incredibly clear, I would hope to anyone that, and you call it out specifically, that this is heavily put in the context of the traditional Abrahamic religions of Christianity, Judaism and to a lesser degree, but still Islam because that's part of the Judeo-Christian. Well, that term is not totally accurate. Abrahamic religions is a much better term for that. So it is within the context of that because you are using familiar names. Some of the most important angels in the Bible, although angels are not brought up super often, those names are there. And of course, Lucifer, the famous fallen angel who becomes Satan, who betrayed God in the Bible or in the Torah. You know, it's, it's, I. It would take a lot more literary analysis to truly understand the different nuances at play here. But there seems to be, like, a flipping on its head of the narratives from the Abrahamic religions. One of the most clear and just on the face of it is the demons are the quote unquote good guys for the most part here. Now the angels who are post Lucifer's fall, it's not their fault, at least not right now. They don't know any better for the most part. But it's a story of blind faith based off of fear and deception, followed by a holy war, essentially. I'm not going to be brave enough to say that there's a specific critique of organized Abrahamic religions, but it's a really intriguing context to tell a story. So can you talk about that a bit and maybe your own personal experiences or how you approached it?

[Isabella] Yeah, so I am so worried that this narrative is, like, low key offensive just because like, you know, it's the story that I'm trying to tell. Kind of like you said, the demons are sort of like the good guys in this case, and it's flipping the narrative. I would definitely say it is a commentary on blind faith. And I don't want to say organized religion as a whole, but definitely, it definitely comments on that a little bit. 

[Aaron] Well, in this context, not to cut you off so quick, but in this context, you know, like Michael is an organized religion somewhat.

[Isabella] Yeah, I don't know. I just, I don't want to get in trouble.

[Aaron] That's okay. That's okay. And I'm not trying to get I'm not trying to put you in a position of that. I just find I grew up with a Christian background and I'm still well, not as much because I'm moved away, but I'm still mildly involved with Trinity United Methodist in in Bradenton. So I would call myself a Christian, but I've had plenty of contemplative and questioning things for myself.

[Isabella] Right.

[Aaron] But I just find, we talked about it another time, you and I, about Supernatural and you roll your eyes a little bit because you said you'd never seen Supernatural.

[Isabella] I've never seen a single episode of Supernatural. And I will say it again, my partner is always like, Bella, this is this. They did this in Supernatural. I'm like, girl, I've never seen it. So how would I know?

[Isabella] Not quite. I mean, God is a villain. But like God is a person. It's not an omniscient soul being life force like it is in yours. And it's just more the adaptation of biblical figures and recontextualizing it. I totally understand the fear of not wanting to be offensive because that's not what you're trying to do. I mean, there's, there's critiques here and there. And you're like flipping the narrative a little bit. But I know it's, I can tell it's not from a place of malice whatsoever. But if you know, if that is all offensive, will that, supernatural is blasphemous then.

[Isabella] Yeah. So, I should probably mention it, like, this might make a little more sense. I didn't grow up religious at all, so…

[Aaron] Ah really?

[Isabella] Yeah. Yeah. Just my family. They were just like, girl, you can do what you want. Like we don't care, which is very nice. I'm glad that I wasn't, I'm glad I wasn't raised religious because it has allowed me to have this interest in all religions, to be completely honest. I've always been very interested in things like that. And I think that's part of the reason why I like researching about it so much. 

[Aaron] Well, you have a big element of reincarnation as well.

[Isabella] I was about to say, like, that's also an element of that, which I believe like the reincarnation and the karma thing, especially I know I also, there's like a karmic thing in there, too, that wasn't mentioned, but that's not like super important. But that's like, I think it's like Buddhism and Hinduism. So I think I think definitely with this story, I didn't want to make it seem like Christianity was the correct assumption on how, like, everything was created. I wanted to give everything a little bit of validity in the, in this world. I just think that the story mostly focuses on Christianity, because that's what I'm so used to seeing. Like that's, you know, being in America, like you're so used to, like, seeing that. That's just what I'm familiar with, because I grew up here. If I had grown up somewhere else where there was a different prominent religion, I guarantee that maybe, you know, the, the narrative would be slightly different to kind of, you know, highlight that. But yeah, I just didn't grow up religious or anything like that. So that might be why I find, like, interest in it. And that's why I maybe feel comfortable with recontextualizing these biblical figures without ,like, being, like, super scared that I'm going to be like smitten, smote. I don't know. What's the past tense of, I don't know.

[Aaron] I like smote. I don't think that's right. But I like it. So let's go with smote. But I'm surprised about that, because at least for myself, although I identify as Christian, I just find this sort of stuff absolutely fascinating. It's like reading about the, the non canon books of the Bible, you know, in real life, that is. And so I find it even more intriguing to read your lore, to recontextualize, I really love how you implement, you know, different actual biblical narratives into the story, like, for example, the sacrificing of Isaac. I don't remember the complete actual biblical context, but essentially it was a challenge from God to Abraham to kill his beloved son, which he ended up not doing because God said you are so faithful and he spared him. And for, I can't speak for everyone, I would say for even a good chunk of Christians and even non Christians, that's a kind of a, without greater context or maybe just to your own personal opinion, that's a little cruel in some way, you know, mentally cruel. And so if you think it's very evil, I'm not going to, I'm just saying, you know, that's the context that it’s usually seen in. And recontextualizing that as a power hungry archangel, Michael, just toying with him and seeing the limits of his influence is a great recontextualization because it also plays on, you know, the broad perception of that story fragment, you know, in the general conscious. So I think it's even more phenomenal that you were able to incorporate elements of reincarnation and traditional Abrahamic religious iconography into your own narrative without having grown up in that environment. So I'll tell you as someone who I would say has alright knowledge of the Bible, you did a very good job of that. Yes, I suppose in our preliminary, I should have said that, but I guess I didn't know what the lore was before.

[Isabella] Yeah, that's, that's true.

[Aaron] Yeah, no, no. Yeah. So that's the lore, but as we've said a handful of times, you know, there's a lot there. That's also why I said at the beginning, this is going to be a long episode. I even asked Isabella permission to extend our recording time because I wanted to make room for all of this because it's so damn cool, in my opinion. But, so that's just the lore. And we're going to get to the music soon, but we're missing another piece, which is the original piece, the narrative, because although all of that was literally narrative, that's not where the story begins. Well, I guess technically like in timeline, but Isabella, I'm going to leave this part to you. What is the actual narrative now that we've set the stage of the Infernal Suite and its world?

[Isabella] Alongside the lore, like, as you know, a lot happens in the lore, but a lot also happens in the narrative. And so, as we know, the lore just kind of explains the genesis of this world, the rules, like, everything that happens before the story. The story itself follows this girl. She's a demon. She was born into this world bearing the recusance curse because, like I said before, demons can be created. If a demon and a human love each other very much, they can be brought into this world. And so it's about this girl named Alexandra, and she has to grapple with this reality of living in this world while having the recusance curse. 

[Aaron] Is she treated differently because she's a hybrid, or is she accepted in demon culture and society?

[Isabella] So, like I said, if you are born a demon and you have a demon dad and a human mom, you're fully demon. Like, there's no halfsies. So she's fully like, I'm here. Like, you know. So she at first doesn't, I'm not even going to begin to describe any, like specifically what happens in the story. I'm just giving, like, the broad arc of what goes on. At first, she doesn't really question this reality. She doesn't really question the way she's treated. She doesn't really question that she, like, oh, I have this curse and it's slowly killing me and it's miserable, but that's just how the world is. Like she doesn't question any of that because that's all she's ever known. But as the story progresses, she starts to learn about the lore at the same time that we as the readers will. So y'all are going to be getting this information at the same time. And it's slowly revealed to her that the enemy isn't her own kin, because at the start of the story, it's, like, her versus like other demons type of deal. But as the story progresses, she slowly realizes that the other demons aren't the enemy. It's the establishment that made them demons in the first place.

[Aaron] So you also are implementing some, how best to word this, anti elitist, and if you want to be really broad, like anti capitalist ruling class versus the rest sort of element between here where the ruling class pits the working class elements against each other while, like, floating above them in their own world. 

[Isabella] Yeah, 100%.

[Aaron] Yeah, fair enough. Yeah. I mean, I can't argue about that in our actual world. So can't argue about it here. Go on. How does she learn about, is it like well, so is it well known that these post Lucifer angels and Gabriel and Michael are the ultimate enemy, but, or is it mostly known that demon versus demon and then the angels are another element because she gradually learns it. So that probably means that it's not super well known or accepted.

[Isabella] No. And it's because the actual lore component everything that happens there is like hundreds and hundreds of years ago.

[Aaron] Oh, I should have asked that. Okay

[Isabella] That's okay. The actual story actually, it takes place in like a modern world setting with having this like super fantastical lore as its background. And how do I, yeah, I'm like blanking on it because it's just so much but it's just generally accepted that demons bad and angels good and angels they enforce the demons. They keep them in line and they make sure they're not, like, doing anything bad and like they can kill them if they want to. So that's also like a commentary on some societal things 100%. But yeah, so the actual background lore isn't really well known in this, like, modern setting. And like I said, this character Alexandra, she's going to be learning about all of this at the same time that we are. So it'll be like, I don't know, you'll be fed like crumbs of this lore throughout the narrative.

[Aaron] So is it I mean, I know you said you haven't literally written it but is it like from a first person perspective?

[Isabella] So I actually did write a little bit of it. But I had to go back, I had to go back to the drawing board. And I think I'm going, it was originally first person, I think I'm gonna have to switch into third person. Because there is a point in the second half where we as the audience are going to experience a disconnect from Alexandra because she is essentially pushing us, like, out of her mind. The events that I'm not even going to explain but it's the very first half of the story is going to be, like, okay, we know everything she's thinking even though it's in third person and then the second half, there's going to be, like, a disconnect there like we're going to see what she's doing, but we're not really going to be in her in her brain. 

[Aaron] Okay.

[Isabella] Essentially.

[Aaron] Now, now that we have the world, and at least an idea of what the perspective of the story is, which is through this girl demon who's exploring and learning about the world just as we are in the narrative. And now that we understand the way the land and also how you came through this, a narrative that you began writing or learning in middle school, developing it and then revisiting it once, later you said 2021, I believe. And then once you came to grad school working on the actual album Infernal Suite, writing a narrative creating the lore and so on itself is quite the mountain as you have been describing and expressing. But this, it is a multimedia narrative and world because you're, of course, implementing the sonic landscape, the soundtrack. Was it something in your graduate studies, something you experienced, a premonition of your own? What drew you to developing other, like, what, why not just a straight novel, like just or novelization, a screenplay, whatever. Why a multimedia narrative and what drew you to start like aggressively exploring it that way?

[Isabella] Right, so originally, I didn't intend on doing this, just because it wasn't something on my radar. But it's really funny because I did write a little story in high school and then I wrote a soundtrack to go with that story. So I've done this before but like I just kind of, like, I kind of put that away. I was like, that was okay. We're just never gonna, like, revisit that.

[Aaron] You weren't kidding about the leitmotif inspiration.

[Isabella]No, I'm so serious about it. But when I got into grad school, when I first moved down to Louisiana from Virginia, I had like a couple of weeks where I wasn't doing anything. And so all I did was work on my story and write some music in the meantime. And during this period of time before the semester started, I was like, you know, I really like my main character. I wonder what it would sound like if she had, like, a theme or something like that. And thus her leitmotif was born. And once I had the leitmotif, I developed it into a piece, that piece being one of the pieces on the album. We'll talk about that in a second, obviously. So I wrote that. But then I was like, wait, there's this other character I really like and I want her to have a theme too. So then I wrote that. And when the semester started, I started writing like the actual Infernal Suite piece, the Ten Minute Monster. Originally, like, I was just messing around. It wasn't meant to connect to the story in any shape or form. But as I was writing it, I was also developing a scene that I want to have later in the narrative. And I put them both side by side in my brain. And I was like, oh my god, this piece that I'm writing is the scene that I'm conceptualizing. And this is the music that goes with that scene. So that's kind of like how I began doing that. And then I wrote two more of the pieces on the album. After I finished the Infernal Suite monster piece, those came after. But I was like, yeah, so all of these pieces exist in this little story world. Let me just throw them together into a fun little album and upload it, see what happens. So that's kind of what happened with that.

[Aaron] See what happens indeed. And now here you are. But, all right, cool, cool. So let's talk about the album itself finally. And so I guess you're going to take us through on a little narrative journey of what each of these tracks are about. Let's go in order. The first track on the album is Her Games. And sonically, it is like a prelude. Can you tell us about Her Games? 

[Isabella] Yeah. So this piece, Her Games, it's actually in reference to one of the characters that I created. This character named Elle, she's very, very important, but I'm not even going to begin to explain why she's important. 

[Aaron] It's not the main character, but you said that there's two characters and you were like, oh, well, I need that. This one needs a theme. Was that one of them?

[Isabella] Yes. Yes, yes, yes. 100%. Yeah So she's important because she is the driving force behind how Alexandra develops throughout the story. Like they're very connected. And I wanted to write a piece that sort of reflected the atmosphere of Alexandra's first impression of this character. On the surface, I would describe Elle as very manipulative. She likes to play with Alexandra's emotions. And I think that the piece that I wrote reflects this false innocence that Elle has. It's meant to be a bit unsettling. It's kind of like warning the listener that something's not completely right with this character. Like she's got, like, there's something going on with her type thing. But of course, she straightens out later in the narrative as we get to know her. But the way I describe her is that she likes to play games that she can win. And she will do it however she feels is necessary. And I wanted, again, this piece to kind of reflect like, okay, this is my first impression of this character.

[Aaron] Yeah, I can't name the specific percussion instrument that you use. It's like a Glockenspiel xylophone type sound. And it sounds playful and almost childish, but the amount of reverb and the chords that you choose and the melodic dissonances add the sinisterness to it. And of course, the texture develops through it. All right, well, so that's the first track on the album. And so next is Encounter. Can you tell us about that one?

[Isabella] Yeah, sure. So this piece is supposed to portray a tense confrontation between Alexandra and another demon. Like I said, in the very beginning of this narrative, Alexandra believes that the enemy is other demons that are trying to mess with her, that type of thing. So that was more of like a, if she were to get into a little ker-shuffle with another one of her kind, what would that track sound like? And originally I was like, oh, well, I need to write this kind of sinister because demons are, like, just sinister beings, I guess, just contextually. But also it didn't make sense through the lens, like, if we're being shown this narrative through the perspective of a demon, they're not going to come off as, like, super sinister type thing. It's more of like, oh, that's just some guy kind of, but that's just supposed to be like a tense moment. I feel like a tense scene where she's about to fight another demon or whatnot.

[Aaron] Well, I have a question about the dynamics of the world. So you got angels, demons, and humans. So we know that what the angels perspectives of the demons are and the misconceptions that demons have of one another, where are the humans in this dynamic? What's their opinion on everything?

[Isabella] So humans, okay, humans are, they believe, like, oh, angels and heaven and God, like, they're all good, because that's what religion tells us. That's what we're taught. And we're supposed to stay away from demons and not, like, mess with them or make contracts with them type thing. So they are kind of siding with angels. But then of course, you've got human beings who are like, well, I don't care about that. I'm gonna make contracts with demons if I want to, because I'm not, like, I don't care, type thing.

[Aaron] Okay, so kind of like real life, maybe slightly more black and white, but in the context of the story, but so you know, like normal human behavior pretty much.

[Isabella] Yeah, literally.

[Aaron] Okay, fair enough. That makes sense. I was just, I realized I did not ask that earlier. The next track is something that I find, it, not that the, see, originally, I just found your stuff, you didn't send it to me. I didn't reach out to you first, I was just sampling different music across people I come across on Instagram and Facebook. And I didn't know anything about any kind of narrative. Of course, I didn't know what the narrative was. I didn't even know there was one attached. So when I was just listening to it, it might as well have been absolute music to me. I didn't know if there was any meaning. In The Presence of Dying Stars is the first one that made me go, Oh, what's going on here? Because you know, you set the tone and you set the atmosphere for the first two tracks. You have, obviously, some acoustic instruments, but you have electronic manipulation of them. You have electronic sounds, you have guitar, you have some drums. There's piano, you know, it's an electric acoustic sound, essentially. But In The Presence of Dying Stars, it's like the movement of a piano sonata. Well, so one, what is the story going on here? But it's also, why such the contrast? I thought it was, for one, it's a beautiful movement or beautiful, sorry, a beautiful track. But yeah, so In The Presence of Dying Stars.

[Isabella] Okay, perfect. So this piece is actually a character theme. This is Elle's theme. And I didn't say anything about this before, because I like being sneaky. But her, the main theme that you hear In The Presence of Dying Stars is actually foreshadowed in her games. I put that, that motive in there on purpose. So it's, it's foreshadowing. So they are connected. Because this is a character theme, I wanted this piece to kind of give us a sense of what's beneath the surface of this character, Elle.

[Aaron] There's a vulnerability to the sound compared to the others. Yeah

[Isabella] Absolutely. It's definitely a side that she does not show to other people. And I just wanted to kind of portray, like, who she is below the manipulative exterior because on the outside, she's like, yeah, I, like, slay.  She's really slay, but very manipulative. But she's actually this very, I don't want to use the word sensitive, but I don't want to say, like, traumatized, because that sounds so, like, I don't know. But she's just got a lot going on underneath the surface, I feel like, and she's very vulnerable and tries to hide it. And she does that by manipulating those around her to hide that vulnerability, which again is showcased in her games, but this piece is just her core theme. So that's that's kind of, that's what that piece is about.

[Aaron] Here's a question. Why third on the track listing? Is there a, the big one that we'll be getting to the actual Infernal Suite is last but why, why third for the theme for Elle?

[Isabella] So in terms of, like, actual song order, I'll go ahead and say this now, when I was putting this album together and determining the order, I just did it in the way that made sense to me. I actually looked at it, the things that you know, the, the pieces are trying to portray actually come in the order that the, that the narrative tells chronologically. So if I were to like put this entire album on a timeline as to when these pieces play, this would be like in the first, like, quarter of the the narrative, like, these belong within the first quarter and the progression of the pieces, they happen chronologically with the events that happen in the narrative. I know it's just a character theme, but it's more so, it's more so like the first time that she expresses a smidge of vulnerability. And that doesn't happen until a little bit later in this, in this first quarter, I think. And that's why it's in the place that it is because it just makes sense chronologically in terms of the actual narrative.

[Aaron] Yeah, that that makes sense to connect it something that that reminds me of, it's not a one to one, but is in the original Star Wars movie, A New Hope, the first time we ever hear the Force Theme or Luke's theme or the Binary Sunset is about the end of the first quarter of the film, or the end of the first third. We don't get that, I mean, it's not as emotionally vulnerable or personal as you're talking about, because the Force Theme and the Binary Sunset is more than just him. But that makes sense. It makes sense to not have a vulnerable thing up front. Yeah. 

[Isabella] Right.

[Aaron] The next track, One Winged Phoenix. Winged. Do you do one winged or One Winged Phoenix? 

[Isabella] I just say One Winged Phoenix.

[Aaron] Okay.

[Isabella] It's giving One Winged Angel from Final Fantasy, which it might be I didn't purposely name it like that. But when I looked at it, I was like, oh, that's kind of funny. I'm going to keep it.

[Aaron] Yeah, why not? But so One Winged Phoenix. This is the track that I didn't even get to the Infernal Suite itself until I decided I wanted to reach out to you to interview, it was actually this specific track. And it was so similar to In The Presence of Dying Stars, similar to that one, we start solo piano. And what I would call an early to mid romantic piano sound if we want to put in the context of classical music. But it was the moment when the distorted guitar just rip roars into the texture. And then I end it up in the room. Such a cool freaking moment. I love it. And so when that happened, I was thinking, okay, a change in texture, we're returning to before, but you do something that this might, I mean, just saying it, it sounds so simple, but I just love the fact that you keep this romantic piano texture and you're just adding another layer. It doesn't, it transforms into something that's a development of both of the ideas of the solo piano and the distorted guitar electronic sounds. The fact that they exist together, I'm not sure if I've really heard that sound totally. 

[Isabella] Really?

[Aaron] And it's just personally, I don't think I have too much. And so this like electronic plus classical piano duet that develops, I loved it so much and immediately when that was electronics and the guitar came in, I was like, okay, I would like to speak to the composer. That was like the convincing moment. I didn't even get to, like, the lengthy one. So can you talk a bit about One Winged Phoenix?

[Isabella] Yeah, of course. That is actually another character theme. 

[Aaron] Oh boy, oh man. You weren't, you really weren't kidding about the leitmotifs.

Isabella] No, I was not. That's Alexandra's theme.

[Aaron] Okay.

[Isabella] The main, like, the main character, whatever. It's all about her, I guess. So what do I even say about that? That was the piece that I, that was one of the pieces I wrote, One Winged Phoenix and In the Presence of Dying Stars relatively around the same time when I first moved down here. Those are the two character themes I worked on. This one, so, because it's a character theme, I also wanted to shed some insight as to, like, who is this person, what are they like, like, what is she about type thing. Alexandra is, how would I even begin to describe her? She's not a good person, but I would say that- 

[Aaron] Not to be judgmental, but she is a demon.

[Isabella] No, literally. It's not because she's a demon. She just thinks she's better than everyone else.

[Aaron] Okay.

[Isabella] But there is, you know, I think that despite that, she's very resilient. And I actually didn't mention this before. So the distorted guitar, we heard that in Encounter and I mentioned like it's connected to Alexandra because like that would be like a scene if she's about to fight somebody type thing. The distorted guitar to me, that timbre represents her pyrokinetic ability. And I'm not even going to go into the ability system. 

[Aaron] What does that mean though? What does pyrokinetic mean?

[Isabella] Oh, she got. like, little fire powers.

[Aaron] Okay. Okay.

[Isabella] Yeah. So I'm not going to explain, like, the ability system, but in the context of, like, if I were to explain it, it would make sense. I know the fire power is so cliche, but if you understood how demons get their power manifestations, it would make sense for her character. We'll take you at your word for it. We'll take you at your word.

[Isabella] Right. Perfect. And to me, the electric guitar represents that fire because her fire or whatever is very important to who she is as a character. The demon power manifestation is basically just, like, what they desire most. That's how it manifests. And I'm not going to go into, like, why it is the way it is for her, but it's inextricably tied with her character. So I felt that was very important. And I actually was really nervous about adding the electric guitar and especially over with this like, oh, this, like, sweet little romantic piano moment. And then all of a sudden you get like slapped in the face with this like completely different timbre and mood almost. 

[Aaron] I can't imagine. It would be so cool performed live. It would be such a…

[Isabella] Oh, 100%. But it was definitely a risk. I didn't know if it was going to work because it sounded good to me. I was like, okay, this kind of slays. But I was worried that it was going to be too much of not like a shock, but just like, oh, this doesn't fit.

[Aaron] Well, not that I'm a music guru, but you at least convinced me at that exact moment. So I guess that's something.

[Isabella] Perfect.

[Aaron] Yeah. Okay. Cool. We got, we're leitmotifs on top of leitmotifs. So now we get into the namesake of the album, the Infernal Suite itself. Now in the album, well, okay. So well, let's break this down first. In the context of the story, what is the Infernal Suite first?

[Isabella] Okay. So Infernal Suite is essentially a sonic retelling of a very specific scene that I was drafting at the time of its conception. It plays out, the way that I imagine it, so towards the beginning of the album, we have, we have Alexandra versus, like, other demon whatever. Infernal Suite is Alexandra versus another angel, which at this point in the story, angels are very scary. Like, you do not want to mess with them because they will kill you. And she gets into an altercation with one. And I just, yeah, that's basically the scene. In the most basic of terms, it's just her fighting an angel, or at least like you've got like the beginning, like, cut scene, if you will, the fight and then the aftermath. So it's in, like, a three act structure almost, this piece.

[Aaron] Cool, cool. You know that there's a, it's interesting the perceptions of angels in actual Christianity. It was mostly, I'm not an art scholar, so let's just, I might be wrong with this, but I'm just going off of my own understanding that the current perceptions of angels as grand, not all powerful, but powerful caretakers of, of holy beings is out of the invention of different artists. I think in the Renaissance, maybe a little bit before, but for a good period in time, although they were respected because they were servants of God, angels were feared by Christians for a long, for, I mean, just because of their raw power and the intimidate, and they are a piece of God's manifestation. And I'm, it sounds like I'm talking about, you know, in the context of some lore, but this is Christianity, like in real life, early depictions of angels are kind of terrifying in some art. So I like that adaptation of that perception. And you know, I have to say, there's many things that, I brought up Dark Souls a fair amount just because I love the series so much and it's fun to find someone who does as well by chance. But the Dark Souls, let's be real, the boss music inspiration here, it, it, like the, the low gregorian chant male voice with the soaring soprano alto harmonization and the thumping drums, it's all there. And it makes sense that it's a fight scene with different, with an ebb and flow to it. And so that, that's really cool. And okay, so here's the question for people who go and check out the album, which you should and I mean, hell, if you made it this far, you really should into the, but so why did you decide to break it up? You have at the very end of the track listing, the ultimate version, which is the full, the full track of Infernal Suite. Well, what led you to break it up? Are those the different beats in the story of the scene?

[Isabella] Yeah, I would definitely say that those are the different beats in the scene. And also part of the reason I did that, I didn't mention this before, but I was very inspired by, this is so embarrassing, I was very inspired by a particular piece from the Naruto Shippuden soundtrack called Hurricane Suite. And it is, it's in three parts, but it all melds together kind of like how, like, Infernal Suite does it, it all connects. And I noticed that specific parts of this 10 minute long Hurricane Suite soundtrack would play during, like, different scenes. And I was like, wait, that's kind of cool. So like they're, you know, using the different fragments of this giant piece that fits together to match different scenes. And so when I wrote Infernal Suite, I noticed I was like, okay, there are specific parts that could match with other different scenes that have nothing to do with like this particular fight. But when you put it all together, it's like this one big scene. So it's, well, for one thing, it was more so for, like, easy listening, because 10 minutes is a long time. And also it's, they can be imagined as almost separate scenes. And then when you listen to the full thing, it's this one big scene. I don't know if that makes any sense. But that's, that's honestly like why I split it up just to kind of, it felt like you said, like the different story beats, it just felt like I should do that, especially granted how long the piece is.

[Aaron] So we're coming to the end of the middle section here, and I almost feel sad to move on from this because I, in the past week and handful of days, when, I have to say that I've prepared for this episode of the TCC more significantly more than any of the other episodes, not to, you know, I love all my guests and the music that talked about, but this is just a different level of analysis that requires me to, like, understand the lore of a world. And it was like the experience of, oh, this is so nerdy. But when I first started listening to the lore videos of Dark Souls on YouTube, and I started understanding what was happening, it's just, it brought back that kind of, like, experience, and it was so much fun. And I almost feel sad for myself to say goodbye to this narrative, but we do need to move on with the topics in this podcast. But I know I'm asking you to comment on an ongoing story that has been a part of your life, but is there anything else you want to say specifically about Infernal Suite, the album or the world you've created?

[Isabella] Well, first, I want to say, I'm sorry, I know it's a lot. That's like one thing, most definitely. However, I am super excited to continue to develop, like, just this concept, because it's opened a lot of avenues for other composition for me, like I can write about like other points in the story. It's really, like, allowed me to find more things to be creative with, which is a lot of fun. But other than that, I don't really have anything. It's just, it's a lot and my tiny little brain is always smoking and sputtering with all this information. 

[Aaron] I love it. I love learning about it. I feel like I'm, it's that feeling when you finish a book or finish a story and it's like, I don't want to leave, but the story's over, so, for right now. But I suppose back to reality, whether unfortunately or not. So the final segment of this podcast, Isabella, I'm going to give you a very open ended slow pitch of a question, which is what does music and, let's go composition mean to you? 

[Isabella] Actually I have a little, it's a little anecdote moment. I promise it'll be quick, but I got posed the same question. We were in, like, a composition studio class, whatever. And one of the professors goes, okay, just raise your hand. Why do you compose? Like, what's the point? And you know, everyone's raising their hand. They're like, oh, cause it, like, makes me feel good. It's how I portray my emotions, things like that. And so I'm like, wait, like those are all valid. But anyway, so I raised my hand and she picks on me and she's like, you know, okay, why do you compose? And I simply said, because I have to. And people, like, laughed at me. Listen, stay with me. I said…

[Aaron] I did not expect that. I'm not going to lie.

[Isabella] Literally like people started laughing at me. I was like, what is going on? Now I realized that it, I may have sounded like a little bit of an asshole because it came off as like, oh, I have to, because like I get a great on it because it's required of me right now. But that's like 100% not how I meant it. So when I say I have to, the best that I can describe it is the little parasite in my brain tells me that I don't have any other choice but to compose because this is what I was put on this earth to do. It's what I have to do. That's, like, honestly, the only way I can explain it. It's yeah, I know it's such, like, a simple answer, but I just can't imagine myself doing anything else than composing. And yeah, the way I describe it is like the art already exists and I'm just the little sculptor going into the marble and revealing the art. That is my job.

[Aaron] I would say on the contrary, that's not a simple answer. That gets at a lot of very deep questions. Maybe literally that's quite the shocking statement, but regardless, I like that. You know, it's not the same for me necessarily, but I suppose when people ask me why music theory, I've wrestled with that a fair amount since coming to graduate school. My perspectives have very radically changed in certain ways. But you know, when I get the question of why music theory, why music theorists, I usually say it's not for the music theory. I do this at this podcast, my schooling and so on, because to me, it's my way of connecting with people. To me, music is nothing without the people who make it, play it, analyze it, listen to it and love it. And to me, it's my way of connecting to it. So I guess to connect with what you're saying, my position in life right now that I'm fortunate to have as a music theorist is honestly, a lot of times has very little to do with the music theory. Speaking of that, the boogeyman, the scary element, the voice leading in the room, the parallel fifth in the corner. Let's flip the coin around music theory. What does that really mean to you in your mind? What's your impressions of it, the institution, its place in what you do and life? 

[Isabella] God, okay.

[Aaron] Or does it really even mean that much? It could not mean that much to you. And that's perfectly fine.

[Isabella] I'm going to preface this by saying I got a COVID-19 education on theory. So I have a love-hate relationship with it. I actually don't use it that much when I'm composing. I go based on vibes and vibes alone. But I think that it's, how do I even explain this? I firmly believe that music theory cannot exist without composition. However, composition cannot be understood without theory. And I think that's super important. I mean, obviously I'm not a theorist myself, so I can't really comment on a lot of things music theory, but I do think it's very important. And yeah, you guys are there to help understand music better, I feel like. 

[Aaron] Optimally and optimally.

[Isabella] Yeah. 

[Aaron] Hopefully. I feel as though I'm always such a negative figure when it comes to music theory, although I'm a self-identified music theorist. Because I say optimally, because it's sometimes, you know, academia is a bubble. Any position in life in a way is a bubble, but especially academia and music academia has the accusation of, and there's plenty of well understood reasons why, that it's a bubble. And I feel as though music theory is not very productive when it is theory that is meant to be understood only by theorists. 

[Isabella] Right.

[Aaron] I mean, you know, there's rocket scientists that there's certain sciences that are only understood by the top scientists. That's fine and good. But when you remove the element of community, the person, and broader understanding to only a small bubble of people, then I think you're kind of missing some of the magic of art, which is why we're not scientists and why fundamentally we're artists or at least art analysts. And so I say optimally a little cynically, but there's good things, there's bad things, just like in everything, but optimally, yes, to help to help understand art deeper. And I agree about the cyclical nature of theory and composition. That's the whole point of this podcast, you know, on the about page of the website, I say that music theory, that, or something to the effect of that composition cannot exist without music theory and music theorists cannot exist without compositions. You know,  someone has to write the music and probably someone's going to talk about it, hopefully. Well, all right. So we're coming to the closing now of this podcast, which has been quite the journey, I would say to an entirely different world. And I know your brain might be a little bit on fire with all these lore questions and all this.

[Isabella] Yeah, maybe a little bit. 

[Aaron] And I thank you for bearing with me and the audience to explore it. But so…

[Isabella] I appreciate you all bearing with me because I know it's a lot. I'm so sorry.

[Aaron] It's a lot. But man, it is so much fun. It brings, like, the child, like, wonderment out in myself. I love, I love engaging with this sort of stuff and don't really have the opportunity to do so, so much. But so I've been seeing on your social media that you have a new EP coming out and you even released a new single for it, which is going to be included in the link. It's going to be included in the links in the episode as well, not only to Infernal Suite the album, but also this new single. Can you tell me a bit about this EP? What to expect, when to expect it? And let's put the cherry on top. The contribution to the canon.

[Isabella] Of course. Okay, so this next EP, it's called The Recusant's Dream. And just based off the title alone, one could assume that this EP might have more to do with the actual lore than the narrative. I kind of, I wanted to go back and do more lore things because that's where my brain has been lately. But yeah, I went ahead and released a single. The single is called The Recusant's Curse, which based off the title, it's probably going to be about the recusant's curse. But I'm such a liar. I said that it was going to be released, like, this month, like mid-June. I'm a liar. I have a full time job right now, so that obviously that didn't end up happening. I'm finishing up the last two pieces right now, so I'm hoping, crossing fingers, that I can push it out, like, the first couple of weeks of July, like, first two weeks of July. Yeah, I feel really bad because I keep posting like, oh my gosh, guys, like, be on the lookout for this EP that I'm, you know, busting my ass for. And then everyone's like, Okay, where is it? 

[Aaron] I keep checking every… I didn't want to call you out for that, but I can't, every time I see, like, every once in a while, I see on social media when you post something, I'm like, ooh, it's coming out. I check Spotify a couple hours later, it's not there.

[Isabella] It's still coming, yeah. So I did go ahead and make the album art, so now it has to, like, I'm forcing myself to actually put it out. It's so close to being done. I think the reason it took so long, A, full time job, but B, there is one piece on there that took me forever to complete and I finally completed it. So I'm just pumping out these last two tracks and then I'll get it up there. 

[Aaron] Looking forward to it, looking forward to it. And also about album art, the headshot that you have for,  you had it on your profiles for a while, but it's going to be the episode icon for your profile and for the episode. Great headshot, the red tint, it's so great. It adds to the atmosphere and...

[Isabella] Can I say something really embarrassing about that headshot, but real quick.

[Aaron] Go for it.

[Isabella]I promise. I promise. That red lighting is from my NeoPixel lightsaber that I set up a couple feet in front of me.

[Aaron] Oh man, I'd love to have a NeoPixel lightsaber, but that's really cool. That's really cool. And I also love the album art for Infernal Suite, how it's this abstract tie dye explosion. Well, it's not quite tie dye, but mildly stylistically like that. But the outline of a woman's face from the profile angle. Did you create that? Was that artist, someone you know?

[Isabella] Okay. So super embarrassing.

[Aaron] You've got a lot of those moments in here. I feel like I've heard the word embarrassing a lot in this. 

[Isabella] Take a shot every time Isabella says this. No, so, I know it's super bad and I'm not going to do it again because at the time I just needed something. I just went on dream.ai and I edited the crap out of the photo that I got on Photoshop. So it's mostly edited by me, but AI had a little bit to do with it. But I do my own album art now. I try to take my own pictures.

[Aaron] Hey, I mean, someone might have a problem with that out there, but… 

[Isabella] it's just this one time.

[Aaron] Yeah. And I don't think that's that huge of a deal. It's still your conception and creation, even if it's through different means. And I also like the album art for your new EP is an altered version of that headshot that I was talking about before. That's a cool stylistic choice. So okay, that's what's next for you directly. But I'm going to ask more broadly, you know, you have got one more year with your masters. What's next for you? Do we, are we smelling a DMA? Are large performances coming up? Do you have a, like, end of degree project that you need to do? What's going on? What's next for you?

[Isabella] All right. So I'm doing my thesis research next semester. I'm very excited about that because I want my thesis research to be related to this multimedia project because I think that could be really cool. My thesis research might actually be about writing a piece and then writing a narrative based off the piece. So instead of having the narrative first and then writing music, you swap it. I just want to see if there's something cool I can do with that. Just because like reverse engineering is always a lot of fun. But I do, I will have a master's recital next spring. And then in terms of a DMA, I want one. However, I would like to get on my feet a little bit in life first. So I'm probably going to take like a one to two gap here just so I can figure things out. And then depending on where I am, I'll go ahead and get that DMA. I just, I've been a student my whole life. I got to like, you know, I got to start my life.

[Aaron] There's many days where I feel the same way. I can't, that's not quite the path I'm going to take. But man, I think a lot of us who are listening can probably feel that in some way. All right, so, Isabella, what would be the best way for people to get into contact with you? Questions, inquiries, comments, maybe even some lore questions.

[Isabella] Perfect. OK, so the easiest way to reach me right now is through my artist Instagram account that is @streetcomposer. Just how it sounds. That's honestly like the best way to get into contact with me. I also have an email, but I mean, who uses email nowadays? So.

[Aaron] Hey now. Okay, okay. And so to give you the last note of this monster of an episode, what can, Isabella, if you could say to the audience something about life, music, what it means, composition, maybe even some music theory in there. You don't, you don't have to. It's all right. No one does. Oh, well, what would you say to the audience?

[Isabella] I think the one thing that I want to impart on the audience, this is something that I've had to grapple with myself. Sometimes, like, I personally get a little bit insecure about my career path because I know a future lawyer and I know a future teacher. Shout out to my partner, my sister. And that sometimes in the lens of society, those two might be a little bit more valued in terms of like, oh, this is how you make money. Like these two things are important. And I think that music and theorists, I guess, are absolutely necessary because music is essentially a reflection of life and a record of our history in a sense. And without music or the arts, for that matter, I think that our culture ceases to exist. And I think that's super important. So that's, that's all I got to say about that.

[Aaron] Excellent. Excellent. So, thank you all for sticking it this way through on this episode on this very, I would say very special episode of the Theorist Composer Collaboration featuring Isabella Temperville and her masterful album, Infernal Suite and the wonderful world lore and narrative that she's in the process of creating. Thank you very much, Isabella, for coming on to the program.

[Isabella] Yes, thank you.

[Aaron] Hello, this is Aaron again. I want to thank you for listening to this episode of the Theorist Composer Collaboration. I also want to give another big thank you to Isabella Temperville for joining the podcast and sharing their album, Infernal Suite. Isabella's contact info is listed both in description of this episode, as well as on the corresponding contributor page on the TCC host website, and I would appreciate it if you could show her some support. If you're listening to this portion of the episode, then congratulations. You made it through to the end of this monster of an episode. And I will say on my end, this also was quite the personal undertaking compared to the normal episode. It really was an honor to have an access to Isabella's notes on this world that she's been creating and evolving for quite a long time. Because of this extra and amazing layer to the album, Infernal Suite, I have worked more in preparation and post on this episode more than any other, and I am so happy to have done so. I love all of my guests and the different episodes in the catalog, but I have to say this one is my personal favorite so far. Like I said in the episode, I felt like a kid again, discovering a fantasy world for the first time, the lore intricacies, a soundtrack, and the vivid imagination of Isabella in the creation of it. It felt like when I was involved with the early Percy Jackson novels, the Dark Souls series, and the first time exploring the world of Skyrim. That is a certain kind of fantasy, world-building magic that is rare and should always be cherished. That is not all to forget, of course, that the Infernal Suite is an amazing album without and especially with the lore contexts. I want to again give a very, very special thank you to the composer, Isabella Temperville, for coming onto the podcast, sharing with us her original storytelling and world, and the phenomenal album, Infernal Suite. For further updates and notifications on the Theorist Composer Collaboration, make sure to subscribe to our email listing on the homepage of our host website, and follow our Instagram and Facebook pages. Relevant links in the description. You can listen to future episodes through our host websites, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, iHeart Radio, and YouTube, so make sure you subscribe to the platform of your choosing. Again, all relevant links are in the description. TCC episodes are posted weekly on Mondays, and don't miss our weekly blog posts, which go live a few days after a new episode is added. I am excited to preview that our next featured composer is Russell Avellianosa and his piece, Lavender and London Fog. Russell is a great friend of mine, and I am excited to share the conversation that we had about a whole host of things, including his phenomenal piece for full orchestra, Lavender and a London Fog. There will be more information on this in the upcoming blog post, and of course in the next full episode. Make sure to follow our social media accounts and relevant streaming platforms, because you won't want to miss it. But until then, this is Aaron, and thank you for joining the TCC.

Transcript edited and formatted by Justine de Saint Mars