14. Philosophy of a Miracle - Natalia Rojcovscaia-Tumaha

[Aaron] Hello, and welcome to the Theorist Composer Collaboration, a podcast interview series highlighting modern composers and their compositions, hosted by music theorists. My name is Aaron D'Zurilla, and I'm a graduate music theory student at Florida State University, and I will be your host for today. The music that you were just listening to is an excerpt from the piece titled Philosophy of a Miracle by the composer Natalia Rojcovscaia-Tumaha, who, alongside her music, is the featured guest for this episode. That leads me to welcome Natalia herself to the program. How are you? 

[Natalia] Thank you. I am very grateful for your kind invitation, and it is a great honor for me to present here and to share with my experience and some of my thoughts which I have according to my creativity and my other activities in my life. Thank you so much. 

[Aaron] Of course, of course. I'm happy to have you on. Well, I won't spoil it. How about you go ahead and tell the audience about yourself, personally, professionally, academically, whatever you choose.

[Natalia] Yes, I am a composer. Currently, I'm pursuing a Doctor of Musical Art in Composition at Florida State University College of Music. And I'm a composer, someone who has always been deeply connected to the arts and education. Personally, I grew up in a creative family that valued classical literature, music, and theater, which greatly influenced my path. I love exploring various forms of art and finding ways to integrate them with scientific concepts to create meaningful works. Professionally, I can say that I wear many hats. I'm a composer, pianist, conductor, educator, culturallist. My compositions have been performed by orchestras and symphonies, and I have been fortunate to receive some awards. I was a member of the jury of competitions and an organizer of various creative events. Also, I'm involved in cultural initiatives with organizations like World Academy of Arts and Sciences and UNESCO, which is very important for me. I have coordinated and participated in numerous international projects and festivals. Throughout my career, I have focused on cultural enlightenment and the integration of art, science, and humanistic pedagogy. My composing activity spans various musical genres, such as contemporary art music, sacred music, electroacoustic music, and jazz. 

[Aaron] Yeah, that's quite many hats, if I do say so myself as well. So, Natalia and I, I wouldn't necessarily say that we know each other very well, but we are colleagues at Florida State University, as you can probably track. We both came here, had our first year and first semester at the same time. I'm a second year, masters in music theory, and she's second year, DMA in composition. So, we came in at the same time, and we both had music theory pedagogy together, which was quite an experience in many different facets. But so, about your background and about your artistic interests, one thing that has, oh, I've seen your works and your pieces be performed a handful of times, and one of the most interesting elements of your works is your incorporation of different elements of art that are not just music, as you were just listing yourself. So, my question is, or I'm more prompting, can you talk about, you know, the ways that you incorporate visuals and different elements of your artistic mind with your music? Because that's one of the most unique things I've seen from you.

[Natalia] Yeah, this is exactly very important for me, and it started from my childhood, and now I am continuing to develop this direction. One of our important projects is the Art Imaginarium Project. It transcends traditional boundaries, bringing together professionals from different diverse artistic backgrounds to collaborate and forge innovative transformations. This entirely author-driven initiative serves as an avant-garde space, a haven for free art creators, uniting minds from various creative domains to collectively shape novel art forms. In our films, we strive to very important issues which we have in our contemporary time, relevant problems, and try to resolve it through our different point of views from our different types of arts.

[Aaron] Yeah, so that's certainly a big project. Now, you know, that's quite multifaceted, and I want to ask from that, talking about this multicultural, multi-artistic angle, you know, all different facets of the artistic process and trying to represent people as they are and come together, but what difficulties have you found with that? You know, you're from, I believe, Moldova, right? And what has it been like developing that project over in America, Florida, and Tallahassee specifically?

[Natalia] We have some work for the foundation of our organization, which is based on the professionals from my country and the Republic of Moldova and our collaboration with the United States artists. Also, we have interesting collaboration with artists, with performers from our university, with different departments, such as the School of Dance of Florida State University. And we have interesting ideas together. It is like live collaboration, live thinking when we get together and think how we can resolve such important ideas from every person, each person, and we are very happy then we can find solutions. 

[Aaron] Sure, sure. That's quite the goal and quite the accomplishment to be working on that. And so, let's talk about your work individually, your music. How would you broadly describe the sound of your music? You said that you've always been very influenced from a young age, from classical ideas, possibly romantic era and so on. How would you describe your own music?

[Natalia] I can say that I'm maybe a polystylistic composer. I love to use different directions, genres. It is like laboratory, creative laboratory for me, and use different types when I need to explain something. I don't have the exact pathway in my creativity. I love to combine styles, find the new forms, which I do with my colleagues in Art Imaginarium Project and in my own creativity. Yeah, for example, I have my dissertation, opera, "The Tempest", and there I am going to combine their contemporary art music with electroacoustic music, and it will be an interesting experiment for me. 

[Aaron] Yeah, writing an opera certainly is interesting, and that's a great segue, Natalia into, other than yourself, the subject of today, which is your piece, Philosophy of a Miracle. That's what listeners will have heard at the very beginning and what they'll be hearing throughout this episode. But it's particularly special because it is the opening, or the overture, I guess you could say in a traditional sense, to your dissertation work. An opera, operatic work based on The Tempest. So let's talk about your dissertation. Before we get into Philosophy of a Miracle specifically, let's talk about your dissertation work and this opera. I know that the requirement for a dissertation is something big like that. I know that's what they tell you, is something big and something that defines your work. I ask this, I ask this jokingly almost, but why would you put yourself through making an opera? That's such a huge task in every way. Now, you're well fitted for it. You have worked in the visual arts and dance and electroacoustic, as you said, but what drew you to working on an operatic work for your dissertation? 

[Natalia] Thank you for this question. I'm also very wondering why it was my choice, but I understand it was from my childhood. As I mentioned, I'm from a theatrical family and I'm thinking in this way. I love this synthesis of the arts, especially in musical theater, which is opera and ballet theater. This is my passion, to work with orchestras, like my cosmos, my universe. I can explore and discover many ways, new maybe realities. It's like a great travel for me, a trip in this deep and so multi-dimensional reality. This was my choice, but my father showed me this play by William Shakespeare, and I was absolutely excited about this work. I think the play, The Tempest, by William Shakespeare is rightfully considered the pinnacle of Shakespearean genius. At the same time, a huge mystery that has not been fully revealed and everyone sees it in their own way. My vision of it is as follows. This work contains a very important idea of complete forgiveness and unconditional love. It is very exciting to follow the transformation of the heroes who are at first overwhelmed with anger and revenge towards their enemies. And then having achieved their goal, changing their mind, realizing that one more step and they will destroy the life of people dear to their hearts and in general, their whole world along with themselves. These ideas are especially relevant today when we have so many conflicts. It is so terrible. Unfortunately, we are still very divided and focused on our own interests, but we should look for more humanistic ways, learn to listen to hear each other, see through the eyes of other people, feel their aspirations, think analytically and historically in order to understand the deep reasons to drive people's actions. Art helps this most of all. That's why I do it. I think that through this work, I can transmit these great ideas which can answer the eternal questions of the humanity. That's why I address to global literature. 

[Aaron] I have to say, I wish I could, but I can't put up a bunch of examples of your music in this episode, but I wish I could because even before, I mean, I knew Natalia from class, but even before I started talking to her about this piece, it is very evident in the work that Natalia does is I think humanistic is a good word for it. You're always primarily focused and concerned with the human experience and how people connect with themselves, with each other and around in the world, and your focus, regardless of whatever art you're doing, is on the people in and around it. Which is something that I personally, that's why I do the things that I do in the similar way that you are. For me, music theory is my way of connecting with people. Hardly does it ever really have to do with the music theory necessarily. It's an avenue to connect with people, so I can totally understand you on that mark. So I like all that background, but I want to talk logistically or really technically. Writing for an opera is a daunting thing to do. How do you start that? I can't even imagine how you have the narrative of The Tempest, but how do you even begin writing for an operatic work? How do you get from your head to the paper and be productive? How do you go about doing that? 

[Natalia] I started with overture because I listen to it, and I listen to the characters, their emotional states, all the atmosphere around this life. There may be a relationship between each other, and of course, the living nature. Because here, I have an idea that the island is living and everything related with the people on this island. This is feedback of our actions, which we have in our life. The nature has reaction. It's a reflection from our activities. Here, it will be everything related with each other. I hear these energies, because I don't think that I write music. I work with energy. I feel like my activity, my work in this way. I strive to listen to musical sounds and vibrations. It was the first melodies, harmonies, and lines, musical lines, musical factors, and other elements, the rhythmical elements, which I combined and created some images, musical images, with which I work with the child. When we have a child in our family, we need to develop our child and give him or her the best future. Listen very carefully to what children want to realize, which potential they have, and we need to help them. As well, I work because I'm a mother also, and it is very close to me. I work with my music, maybe in this way, how I raise my children. Yeah, it was in this way. I think we need to act not spontaneously, but consequently. Consciously. I'm sorry. 

[Aaron] Consciously, yeah. Consciously. So, I like that comparison of nurturing the music. And for everyone, you know, I am a classically trained violinist, but my experience with opera is limited. I've not really listened to too much. And let's see, what operas have I listened to all the way through? I believe The Magic Flute, Marriage of Figaro, a little bit of something from The Ring Cycle?. I can't really say which one. And I performed in The Pit for Carmen. So I know Carmen very well. So I don't have very deep knowledge of opera, but I do know that the overture, the opening musical piece, which is usually about 10 to 20 minutes, establishes the emotion, the themes, the ideas that you're going to be hearing. The curtains are closed. There's nothing visual. It's just a sonic introduction. And so I like the way that you're thinking about that and incorporating all the different elements. Here's a question. When you're going to be developing the opera over the next couple of years, do you think you would go back and edit some things in the overture? 

[Natalia] No, I'm not, about that it needs to be done because I worked from the beginning, very detailed, and I make everything in the best way how I can imagine it. And I don't do it in the future. There are any additions. I can make the other arrangements, but it is not linked with the deep reworking of the material, the first material. 

[Aaron] Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, that makes sense. And I'm sure if you were to do it that way, it would be even more stressful. So it's probably better that you don't do that. 

[Natalia] I made much time, the ways, many ways, and look through the possible opportunities to develop the musical images, the material. But the final result is final for me. Ending. It's like an ending where I realized everything what I wanted.

[Aaron] Fair enough. Let's get into the piece in question, the overture in question, which is Philosophy of a Miracle. And the subtitle for it is a symphonic poem. Now, I find that intriguing because only in certain contexts, I can't, I don't really have a great way to define what a symphonic poem means. And I find it interesting that you didn't label it. It is functionally an overture because it's the beginning of an opera, but you label it as a symphonic poem. So can you talk about what a symphonic poem is? 

[Natalia] I love this genre because it's also a synthetic genre where we combine something from literature, from poetry and integrate it into music. And the symphonic poem is a piece of orchestral music that tells a story or paints a picture, usually based on a literature or artistic source. And unlike more structured forms like symphonies or sonatas, a symphonic poem allows for greater freedom and creativity in its structure. And in Philosophy of a Miracle, the music flows organically to mirror the dramatic and emotional arcs of the story, drawing the listener into a vivid musical landscape inspired by The Tempest. And especially is a poem form of this play by Shakespeare. And it was organically for me to use the same form in my musical composition. 

[Aaron] That's a good reason that makes sense for not just to be an overture, but a symphonic poem. And so let's talk about the title. I love talking about titles and labels because I've said this in a couple episodes, but Will Davenport, a colleague of ours, once said that the title is the composer's first and sometimes only time to tell the audience what something is about. And so Philosophy of a Miracle, what does that title mean in the context of this? 

[Natalia] It can be strange, but I was inspired by other poems, by William Blake and with his poem, Auguries of Innocence, which starts with four lines, very important and very emotionally reflect our vision and our attitude to our life, very right way. It sounds like this, "to see a world in a grain of sand and the heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hand and eternity in an hour." It's so beautiful and philosophical view of our life. It was a great inspiration for me to include it as a figure for my symphonic poem and to create this name title as Philosophy of a Miracle.

[Aaron] I like that excerpt so much. I think I might put it in the description of this episode. I really like that. That's cool. 

[Natalia] It sounds very well with the idea of The Tempest by William Shakespeare, when our nature is alive and we have the connection with all entire life universe around us.

[Aaron] For sure. I have to say on Shakespeare, in the American public education system, The Tempest is actually not brought up that often, usually in K through 12, like middle school, high school. It's always Romeo and Juliet, usually Hamlet and sometimes Macbeth. The Tempest is rarely brought up. When I saw your notes about what this is inspired by, I had never actually, I didn't know the story of The Tempest at all. And I'm going to make a bet that a bunch of people don't either. I don't know, I'm not a hundred percent sure why that is in the American public education system. Possibly because as you said, there are a lot of unanswered questions within The Tempest. And I know it was later in Shakespeare's career as well. So the story is not as simple as Romeo and Juliet or something. 

[Natalia] Yes, it's philosophical, philosophical story about the deep laws of our life and universe laws and connection between us, the maybe eternal questions which we have as a humanity. I know the opera, The Tempest by Thomas Ades, and also I was deeply embodied with the symphonic poem, The Tempest by Pyotr Tchaikovsky. But I think that I have a little another understanding of this story and I would like to tell it through my opera. It's indeed very philosophical and profound story plot which reflects our life very well.

[Aaron] So now let's talk about, further than opera, this is a full orchestra piece and earlier you expressed how much you like and love to write for full orchestra. I am an orchestra lover as well. I'm a violinist, so that is the majority of the classical repertoire that I love to listen to. What is, and I love asking people whenever talking about full orchestra because, or large ensembles, because everyone's approach is a little bit different. How do you personally approach writing for full orchestra? Do you do a piano reduction? Do you just go straight to the page? Do you write one choir at a time? How do you write for orchestra? 

[Natalia] As I'm a pianist, first of all, I think in this way. I have my piano and when I sit and think about the ideas, I strive to improvise and find some ideas on my instrument. But in parallel, I think orchestrally and I hear the voice of other instruments when I improvise. Where will be one or another section and why it need to be like this? When I would like to emphasize some ideas, musical theme, and I know what it will be better to make, to realize through the orchestral futures.

[Aaron] So I'm a string player, so my favorite choir within an orchestra is of course the string section. I'm very biased with that, but as a pianist, a little bit on the outside looking in, what's your favorite instrumental family to write for in the orchestra?

[Natalia] Of course strings.

[Aaron] Yes!

[Natalia] It's like a human voice and it can reflect all our emotions, all specter of our emotions, feelings, and it's incredibly rich instrument with endless opportunities, facilities. Of course, I include maybe the most active part of the orchestra for me is string action, the string section. As well as string section, maybe I love the same with the same power. Brass section is very important for me because it's the power of the orchestra when I can show many very straight forces when I need what I need to show.

[Aaron] Yes, good answer. Strings, good answer. I would give the brass section an honorary mention as well.

[Natalia] I would like to add if possible that it will be semi-opera, not simple opera. Semi-opera, which means dramatic opera. This is forgotten English genre. I'm already working on composing these parts, these sounds, not only overture, but I go forward. In general, it will include two acts, each of which you have four sounds. This genre is very important for me because here is the combination of absolutely equivalent genres, theatrical genre and music. In my case, it will be contemporary music. 

[Aaron] Yes, yes. What's the name of the sub-genre again? 

[Natalia] Semi-opera.

[Aaron] Semi-opera. Why has it been largely forgotten or ignored as of late history? Is there a reason why?

[Natalia] This is precisely the kind of opera characteristic of seventh century English musical theater in which conversational dialogue is combined with music and dance. It contains clear demarcation between the main characters who only speak and minor characters who only sing or dance. The usual place for music in semi-opera is lyrical sense as well as sense depicting supernatural forces such as divine interventions and natural phenomena. Most semi-operas are tragic comedies adapted from early plays. In my case, my opera The Tempest will be the philosophical drama mystery. Semi-opera choose to exist not because the composers of that time couldn't support this unique English genre, but as a result of an accessible theatrical policy with the advent of the fashion for Italian opera at the beginning of the 18th century. English theaters came under the oppression of visiting singers who demanded high honorariums. To settle the conflict between the theaters, it was decided to split their functions. The Theatre Royal, Drury Lane in London was allowed to stage plays without music and Lincoln's Inn Fields theatre was allowed to stage operas that is purely musical performances. Thus the semi-opera which required the participation of both academic actors and singers naturally disappeared and I believe that it has undeservedly disappeared since along with Italian opera it is a true heritage of world culture. In addition, English opera has an even wider range of possibilities that can significantly enrich the potential of the entire genre of opera opening up the new horizons for it.

[Aaron] Interesting, huh? I guess I need to redo some of my music history lessons from undergrad. That's uh but uh interesting, semi-opera. Yeah well let's get into some of the details of the music itself of Philosophy of a Miracle. I find the opening gesture that's at the very beginning of the piece intriguing because it's it's relatively simple and it's bare in its orchestration, it's very upfront it's not complicated in that sense and you put a pause on dissonance and lead to a resolution and this idea shows up a couple times throughout the, well probably more than a couple times I probably missed a good deal of those times. But uh for example so it shows up at the beginning with the piano and the vibraphone so this is an opera this is a symphonic poem what does that what does that gesture mean in the context of the piece? 

[Natalia] In this fragment I would like to show when numerous curtains open as if we penetrate space and time and plunge into a new reality which is a reflection of our world and the patients of our life and this is many places when we need to go through and come to new world and to see the real life yeah the opening gesture in the piano and vibraphone is meant to create a sense of mystery in general and anticipation this motif represents the miraculous and otherworldly elements of the story setting the stage for the drama that follows when the boy, reinforces this motif in the measure you said, 19-20, it adds a new layer of meaning and emotional depth and it is like a voice which call us.

[Aaron] Yes, it well a call yeah a calling gesture. I didn't even think about it in that way. Yeah that's that's that's some good insight and intensity there, certainly is there's quite a lot of it. Now one thing I find interesting is the textural intensity, usually brought up by the strings in this oscillating rapid 16th note idea that is throughout different moments of the piece. But as you said is illustrating the intensity and I have to say so I appreciate that your favorite choir in the orchestra is strings because, of course I'm a string player and I always like to talk about this because I am one that I really enjoy your string writing it is I can tell that you enjoy it. I would assume, if I didn't know you, you were a string player, because I think it is quite sublime, the string writing. The melodic texturing of the section that continues to a later point where it starts with the strings upfront with a great melodic layering and then its purpose that string choir its purpose transforms over the next 20 or so measures so it starts in the foreground it start as the texture around the string starts developing it goes to the middle ground sits in the background but then as the intensity rises it shoves itself back into the foreground. So I don't really have a question about this part, I just if you could talk about your implementation of this intensity and the textural layering. 

[Natalia] Of course before some words about this place when it started before this moment I had the theme of the island and the Prospero, the main character of this story, and these images was transformed in this way this is a huge pain, Prospero's pain that was hidden and locked inside him it breaks out and locks down all the locks and in his soul that he has hung for this long time but he is already ready for forgiveness as it will be at the climax of the opera at the moment of complete catharsis and this powerful energy pours out into complete peace. Then in theory the main curtain opens and the actions of the opera begins and we can feel this transformation of the hero. Some words about the musical elements which are used for these composers there are repeat 16th nose in an oscillating pattern in the strings are designed to evoke a sense of turbulence and intensity these passages often represent moments of heightened emotional or dramatic tension within the narrative the oscillating pattern creates a feeling of movement and urgency reflecting the inner turmoil of the characters and chaotic forces of the nature because everything is linked as I mentioned before or the supernatural elements of the story this moment serves as dramatic highlights providing contrast and depth to the overall musical structure. 

[Aaron] Fair enough, fair enough. Yeah it's great writing with some good purpose behind it and there's there's another moment that I want to talk about. There's a transformation that is at the end of this section of turbulence that we've been talking about measure 67 there's a dramatic atmospheric change to the sound can you speak about what's happening here?

[Natalia] It reflects the character of the main character of the opera who is Prospero. His thirst for revenge because it was his first feeling which is the fall into the abyss and the destruction of oneself as a person and the world around him. And this is like a test of which can be if he will choose the another way not the way of forgiveness but the way of revenge.

[Aaron] So later on in this piece we have more moment, well there's plenty of different intensities harmonic and textural, but another time that I want to talk about was measure 153 when you have I you know when I when I was looking at this passage I love how it sounds I love it's this aggressive late romantic, it's bleedingly intensive string writing. That is so much fun to listen to but gosh I hate playing that kind of stuff, personally, as a player because it's usually really hard to pull off well. But that aside, can you talk about this moment when you have just this rising aggressive string intensity at 153? 

[Natalia] The power of his desire to make this revenge and this is very dramatic form of them develop me of the most negative feelings you know with the inner limits in this period when maybe it can be shown through the novel in the novel when Ariel, the spirit Ariel, who is helper of the Prospero right and tell him very emotional that you need to stop it is very destructive desire you need to stop for your daughter for the brighter future of your daughter Miranda. And Prospero hear it and it is like the the final decision, final powerful impulse which can help which helps him to make this positive decision to stop and to to take it as a situation inside of him. And forgive to all all his enemies and this is like a transformation of this destructive and creative forces yeah. Which it concerns our decision we which we need to make all the time. Every day we make decisions we can make positive or negative decision and it can change our life and the lives of our family members or other people around us. It's very important which decision we make. 

[Aaron] Yes yes of course, very insightful. So before we move on to the final section Natalia, is there anything else you want to talk about specifically to Philosophy of a Miracle or writing for opera?

[Natalia] Philosophy of a Miracle is a piece that is very close to my heart it explores stems of transformation forgiveness and their empathy compassion, which we need more in our life, and their interplay between the natural and supernatural world. Through this piece I aim to create a musical experience that is both thought provoking and emotionally engaging, inviting listeners to reflect on the deeper questions it raises it serves as an introduction to the broader narrative of the The Tempest. In general and setting the stage for their operatic journey that follows and I include there all the important messages for listeners and all the stems leitmotif images and important thoughts about the main ideas of this play by Shakespeare. I hope that I understood it right. Thank you.

[Aaron] I believe you did, I believe I mean I can't call you out on that I'm sure I'm sure you have I'm sure that you did. Well so usually the first question that I ask in this section is what does music mean to you but I think we're gonna move over that one because I think you've, this is what I really appreciate about you Natalia, is that this is not just a piece. Philosophy of a Miracle is that this is a deep expression of your thoughts feelings and who you are and how you see the world and so I think it's pretty well answered how you view music and composition. Let's talk about the field of composition the position of being a composer or an artist what are your thoughts and feelings of this professional landscape. 

[Natalia] Music is the most powerful force that can make the transformations in our thinking in our lives. I understand this respect fullness for this action that we need to be very respectful with our music which we translate and give our music to the audience. It's very important which ideas we include in our messages musical messages. I think that music need to have the strong ideas and very positive ideas because it's the great inspiration for us. It is the special language which we can understand directly with our souls and our hearts and it doesn't need that translation, it speaks directly with our soul yeah. Therefore it's very important to speak honest and find the question their answers for the most relevant questions of our day. 

[Aaron] Yeah, and speaking about those important messages. Now you are a female composer, or maybe a better way to put it a composer who is female, but just as any composer who is female you're an advocate for women who representation in art and music and opportunities but in particular you have been involved in different organizations that help promote that, particularly. So then my question is, what advancements in the arts, what good things have you seen and what still needs to be worked on in incorporating inequitable representation and inclusion of women in music and art broadly?

[Natalia] This question, this is indeed a very important direction for me as a member of the International Alliance for Women in Music. For example, and I was a former board member of this organization. I strive to make the advocacy of music women music to support all initiative of this organization which is very noble and extremely important for us. I spear headed advocacy programs addressing systemic challenges faced by female musicians and composers and I was one of the organizers of the annual concert and I supported the programs and with social media to explain our very important purposes and to tell about our initiatives for many possible participants. This initiative is very important because many times, much times we was in the shadow and right now we have the very important opportunity to speak loudly and speak proudly and be heard. I think that we need to support women's creativity because it is very humanistic bring the very positive and harmonious influence our own our creativity global creativity and make many benefits for all people around the world.

[Aaron] Great answer, great answer. I've just found particular, you know I did not prep you beforehand with questions about that but looking more at all of your background I thought it important to ask that question. And thank you thank you for including your thoughts with that.

[Natalia] Thank you very much dear Aaron, for your very important answers or, I'm sorry questions.

[Aaron] You know, I like my answers too, but thank you. Yes so okay so, this is the Theorist Composer Collaboration. We've been talking about composition obviously but now, whether fortunately or unfortunately, let's talk about music theory. Music theory plays a fundamental role in what you do because you write music of course, but the field of music theory, the classes, the whole concept, what does it mean to you what are your thoughts and opinions on that?

[Natalia] I think that it is basis for composers for all professional musicians because we can build our creativity only on their fundamental knowledge. It is extremely important for us to start to learn deeply music for our more opportunity to speak without borders yeah that's expected this is basis for me yeah. I can't imagine myself without the knowledge in theory of music and are that all the disciplines from in this area. I'm sorry and I'm very happy that I received this fundamental education during many years in my life so musical I some named after Sergei Rachmaninoff the Academy of Music Theater and Fine Arts of my country and here I continue to develop my skills in this direction and make the perfection in theory of music as well as in the compositional way. 

[Aaron] Yes yes, and maybe a little bit more of a controversial context I would argue that the fields of music theory and modern composition, not composition overall because theorists have to analyze something, but modern composition essentially what you do and anyone who's alive does and the field of music theory. There's a separation of what kind, that's up for debate, but how do you see the fields of music theory and modern composition working together or how should it be improved?

[Natalia] I understand that it can be very difficult because we have so many exploration of the compositional ways, so many directions, experiments, that theory of music needs to after these experiments and learn more about compositional composers thinking. We have absolutely unlimited endless field of our experiments all the ways are opened we combine different styles. We find new ways through the futures which we didn't use in the past but I think that we don't need, we must forward with our roots we need to remember our fundamental roots for basis and which can help us to be more profound deep in our thinking. Because if we learn only contemporary techniques, compositional techniques, it's not all the composition field we need to know very deep all the evolution of musical styles genres and others here the theory of music is available absolutely available and yeah we need to help each other. I think composers to theorists, theorists to composers it's like change mutuals changing of our ideas and understanding of this professional area and to direct each other and help each other to go forward together. The most important cooperation for me and I see the very positive future for us. And I'm so grateful to you for your absolutely available initiative that you create this organization where and this field with this area where we can exchange our thinking and to enrich each other with ideas and help each other in our creative activities.

[Aaron] Great answer. Of course I agree with that. This is called a collaboration for a reason, so obviously I believe in such things. I appreciate your thoughts and your compliments of this program. I always feel self-conscious whenever people, you know having people on my show and then asking a question that prompts them to agree but I really appreciate your comments. And so now that we're coming to the close of this program obviously you have your dissertation work that you're going with "The Tempest" and the extension of "Philosophy of a Miracle" but what kind of projects do you have coming up of you know obviously this opera but what else do you have in the works?

[Natalia] I'm in the process of also of the ending, finishing my symphosuit The Master and Margarita which is also based on the literary bases as a novel by Mikhail Bulgakov. This novel is also very relevant to our life, our modern life. I am finishing the third and final part movement of this symphosuit. I'm going to realize it, to implement it together with the Tele-Radio orchestra and national chorus of Republic of Moldova and I hope that it can be possible to make the premiere and here in the United States during my studies doctoral studies, maybe and or later. Because here is also as a synthetic in the intersectional in interconnection of different type of arts which can empower more each other to speak deeply and and more colorful. Maybe way to imagine all the historical evolution and all the possible directions for us for humanity. Also, I think globally I thought, I'm sorry it's it's my way, because it linked with my maybe all my life because I am from this family who was who were members activists, theatrical figures in my country also and we thought about general and most important thoughts which can help people to improve their lives and I address in if in this proposes to high literature high poetry, high arts. A different kind of arts my brother is a film director we call we also realize our projects in this way and with technologies. Of course innovative opportunity for power days which can help us and yeah. Here I combined theater also when we have when I have theatrical sense before every movement of this symphony, symphosuit, and it can speak more clearly to people and reflects all the ideas which lacks in this novel which is a paramount for us. 

[Aaron] Yes, well you certainly got a lot of work ahead of you it sounds like busy years ahead. And so what would be the best way for the audience to contact you with any comments questions or requests? 

[Natalia] You can contact me through their social media such as Facebook, my official page Twitter, or my official website which is rojcovscaiatumaha.works.com. I will be happy to answer any questions and be useful and be of service to you in any time or any reasons. I dream to be useful and to make more to make my creative contributions and all the best what I can for you all the people. 

[Aaron] I believe we all dream to be useful in some way, I suppose. But yes, all right so to end this out I'll give the final note to you. If you were to say something to the audience about art, music composition, music theory, what it all means together what would that be? 

[Natalia] Together, all kind of arts is our world it's different points of view, different realities which we have different sides of our world through which we can look look through this the magic bowl and see clearly our lives and our missions in this world. To understand better than ourselves to be inspired by this great area as arts which we have in our worlds. Thank God. 

[Aaron] Thank God indeed for that. Thank you very much Natalia for coming on to this program and sharing you know your phenomenal piece for full symphonic orchestra Philosophy of a Miracle. Thank you for coming on. 

[Natalia] Thank you so much, it was a great importance for me and great pleasure, happiness to present here and to communicate with you. Thank you so much.

[Aaron] Hello, this is Aaron again, and I want to thank you for listening to this episode of the Theorist Composer Collaboration. I also want to give another big thank you to Natalia Rojcovscaia-Tumaha for coming onto the podcast and for sharing her piece, Philosophy of a Miracle. Natalia's contact information is listed both in the description of this episode, as well as on the corresponding contributor page on the TCC Host website as well. And I would appreciate it if you could show her some support. I said this a handful of times inside the episode, but one of the things that I appreciate the absolute most about Natalia as a person, and also as an artist, broader than just a composer, is her care for people, and her care for individuals, and what they bring to the table, their individualistic motives, ideas, and creativity. Humanistic composition. Humanistic is a word that was used a couple times in the episode, but the phrase humanistic composition, or composing, is something that I think is a very apt way to describe Natalia, her process, and the way that she thinks about music. I want to again give a very, very special thank you to Natalia Rojcovscaia-Tumaha for coming onto the podcast and for sharing her piece, Philosophy of a Miracle. For further updates and notifications on the Theorist Composer Collaboration, make sure to subscribe to our email listing on the home page of our Host website, and follow our Instagram and Facebook pages. Relevant links in the description. You can also listen to future episodes through our Host website, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, iHeart Radio, and YouTube, so make sure you subscribe to the platform of your choosing. Again, all relevant links are in the description. TCC episodes are posted weekly on Mondays, and don't miss our weekly blog posts, which go live a few days after a new episode is added. I'm also excited to promote that our next featured composer is Mary Denney and her piece, Voice Memories, a multi-movement piece for a mixed chamber ensemble with strong and compelling emotional connections on display. There will be more information on this in the upcoming blog post, and of course, in the next full episode. Make sure to follow our social media accounts and relevant streaming platforms because you won't want to miss it. But until then, this is Aaron, and thank you for joining the TCC.