7. Nihilara - Violincia

[Aaron] Hello and welcome to the Theorist Composer Collaboration, a podcast interview series highlighting modern composers and their compositions, hosted by music theorists. My name is Aaron D'Zurilla, and I'm a graduate music theory student at Florida State University and I'll be your host for today. The music that you were just listening to is an excerpt from the album Nihilara, the debut album from the group Violincia who, alongside their music, are the featured guest for this episode. That leads me to welcome Lucy from the group Violincia to the program. How are you?

[Lucy] I'm okay. It's very hot down here. It's like, I think it's like 93 right now I don't know if you're, are you back home or are you still in Tallahassee?

[Aaron] No, I'm still in Tallahassee. No, I'm not in my Southwest Bradenton home yet. I am not looking forward to the 90 degree, 90 percent humidity, you know, the beauties of all that. It's not too peachy up here either, but I guess anything's an improvement over there.

[Lucy] I hear you got hail. I hear Tallahassee got hail a couple days ago, so.

[Aaron] Well, maybe. I was actually gone a couple days ago, so maybe though. That's interesting. Lucy, tell me about yourself. Tell the listeners personally, professionally, academically, whatever you choose.

[Lucy] Well, I just graduated law school three days, four days ago.

[Aaron] Congratulations!

[Lucy] Thank you. I've been working on music since I was in middle school, probably when I was 11 or 12 years old. My parents, I specifically remember this. My dad was trying to like get me into music because as a kid I was always kind of like I had really bad ADHD and he, you know, parents sharing their music preferences. My dad put on Coldplay's album, Viva La Vida, and I remember that specifically because that was like the first time, because I'd been like, I'd, you know, been a fan of like The Beatles and growing up in the south, country music, and you know, obviously I'd heard like who Michael Jackson was. But that was like the first time I'd listened to an album and I was like, I want to be, I want to perform like that. I remember specifically, there is one specific Coldplay song, The Scientist that I listened to and I was so like invested in it that I specifically asked my parents, I want to start taking piano lessons, which they eventually pushed me towards guitar because they felt like that would be more what I wanted to do. There's a performing arts conservatory down here called the Stratz Center.

[Aaron] Yeah, I know that place.

[Lucy] So I started doing guitar lessons there and when I was 11 or 12, and that's where I met Mike Batten, he's the guitarist for the band. So I met him when I was 12 and he was my guitar teacher and we met weekly. And every week we'd meet for like an hour or two and just basically just jam freeform and do whatever we wanted, and I would record a lot of stuff and I've always found singing to be my favorite thing to do. So I know it's kind of like a meme at this point, and like nobody likes when somebody like bursts out singing during a jam session, but I would do it on occasion and I would record hours and hours and hours and hours of us just jamming improvisationally. And there were like there are a number of recordings that we did that were my favorites. There are a number of recording personal recordings that I did in like my vault that were my personal favorites that I knew one day I wanted to, I knew one day that like I wanted to refurbish them because I thought the material was really good. I would spend more time just sitting in my bedroom going through it because I recorded them on voice memos on my phone I basically going through like these upwards of like three hour long recording sessions and just editing them down into single songs. I really liked what we were doing I was kind of like in the style of I don't know if you've ever heard of the band Talk Talk?

[Aaron] I've heard I don't know too much, but I've heard.

[Lucy] Their two final albums Laughing Stock and Spirit of Eden are known for being like some of the first post rock recordings, and they were recorded with like because they'd gotten success off of a big single that they'd had and basically they got a lot of money from it, so Mark Hollis, their lead singer, got tons of like basically a full orchestra into, but like also jazz musicians and a number of other experimental artists, into a room and they did a similar thing where they just improv for hours and he cut it down. So I was like influenced by that to like to make these musical projects and actually produced like full albums of this stuff that I didn't know what to call them so I just called them demos. Eventually they'd come out but they were just like sitting in my like repertoire I didn't show anybody any of this stuff for years because I it was just so I had a lot of anxiety surrounding performing.

[Aaron] I certainly feel that you're certainly not alone with that I know my musical background is a little bit different. I will say Coldplay, Viva La Vida and The Scientist some great selections right there. But certainly you know I grew up a classically trained violinist, I really am still not over performance fright People say oh you look so cold like calm and collected when you perform, it's just internalized paralysis of like fear when on stage. And so I, you know, I find it really cool the the recording and mastering of improv sessions, you know you can get some real magic out of those sessions that they produce like an untangible level of musical expression that just isn't the same in prepared recordings. And it's just like a special flavor I think back to like some of the jazz greats in the 50s.

[Lucy] Miles Davis....

[Aaron] Yeah, Yeah

[Lucy] And Coltrane.

[Aaron] Yeah and like a lot of those were first takes and like there's quote unquote mistakes in the recordings where it just becomes like an integral part of such a famous track, and it's off of the raw expression of the performers so I think that's really cool that you've done that.

[Lucy] Yeah, that's I was reading through the questions and one of them had to do with music theory, and specifically like what were my thoughts on music academia and music theory and kind of the whole I feel like it was more having to do with the whole establishment of music culture.

[Aaron] Yep.

[Lucy] I do and I feel like I'm not gonna obviously, music is music and I have no, I don't have like what you call formal music training I have like a long music background.

[Aaron] Sure.

[Lucy] I didn't major in music, although I would have liked to I would have liked to minor in music. I got, when I wanted to, when I like was choosing degrees I got the whole you know lecture from my parents like that's not going to make money.

[Aaron] Yeah I have to say I mean I am going to graduate school in music theory, so obviously I have very supportive parents but I'm very fortunate that my parents were so supportive I didn't have to have the talk, but I've, you know, so many people have that talk.

[Lucy] I think one thing that music academia is missing is the love of improv, and I feel like so much of the especially with classical music has to do with dredging up like the, the past from hundreds of years ago and kind of reliving that magic that was present back then. And it was magic like I have so much respect for the greats of composing, I feel like so much of it though can't be truly experienced unless you are right there, like in a concert hall with the orchestra in front of you. Like, or, you know, like front front row seat to like the Barber of Seville, at least for me because a big part of my musical experience has to do with feelings like and textures and the whole nine yards of it I can't. I'm not the kind of person who could just like be studying for six hours and listening to Tchaikovsky. I like I have to like, well, okay, I'm not I'm not the kind of like I don't think music exists in the background is what I mean.

[Aaron] Yeah, you see it as a fully engaging experience that makes sense. You know it's like it's the meme of like, there's a meme I see every once in a while, or like high school teachers like oh let me put on this classical music in the background for this test and then all the music kids are like well, I'm not going to be able to focus on on the test now.

[Lucy] And also like the non music, the non music students just associate the music with the test.

[Aaron] So, you know, I really wanted to engage with someone who is outside of that institutionalized zeitgeist. And so, found out about your band Violincia through posters that you put up around the Florida State Music Campus. And I have to say that artwork is really cool caught my eye immediately. I'm also a violinist so I'm like oh, Violincia, there's violin, it's really pretty, that must be really cool. So in my spare time you know I use the QR code or what you had on there I looked it up on Spotify. I listened through a handful of times I saw you promoting this new album Nihilara. And I thought man it would be really cool to have you on, you know, the listeners of previous episodes would know that I, if I was to call myself a specialist in anything it would be pop music or commercial music or at least that's what I find the most interest in. So, my degree and where I am in life means I am part of that institution that you're talking about and I certainly see a lot of the issues that you talk about when it comes to the respect of improv and, well that's to put it very lightly, but all the different things concerning that with live performance. And there's less of an issue maybe on the jazz side but when we're thinking about what many people would call maybe hard classical or anything you would think about with music theory and so on, there is certainly much less of not only a focus but therefore less of a respect, many times, to seeing it as a, not just well okay, very few people would say that it's not a valid art form, but you know, as I say, as I've said on the website before, the choice to analyze or talk about music is also like a value judgment, you are platforming something. And so when you don't talk about, don't analyze and don't look at things such as almost entirely improv music or so on, you are making a value judgment by choosing not to include that in the works that you look at. So there certainly is a blind spot for many people in institutional places. Now, we're going to move on a little bit from that because we're going to talk more about the institutional part and the contrast between commercial music, but specifically when it comes to Violincia, where did that name come from? How did the group come together?

[Lucy] Well, after probably about seven or eight years, more like four or five of working with Mike, we, I was, so I started in around 2015 putting together our first album. It was more like of a personal project because at this point like I'd kind of grown out of just listening to Coldplay who was like my main, like I was a big, I was the biggest fan in the world at one point. So I moved away from that and like getting into high school and started getting more into, my next thing was Radiohead, which is like another big inspiration of mine. But then I started really getting like kind of obsessed with the idea of the album as a concept and what like makes an album like an album, rather than just a collection of songs. So I started kind of like trying to format music into projects and also getting really obsessed with like live performances and like set lists. So I'd make tons like out like probably I'm, once I made like a 36 hour playlist of just like, just so I could have it like music playing 24 seven in my head. From that I basically take the music that Mike and I would make in our sessions and try my hardest to compile that in an album like format. So I did that once in 2015 and that took about three or four months because most of it was just like, honestly it's pretty, it's well for what it was it was really, I'd say I liked it for what it was. But I'm not planning on releasing that initial album, album of demos anytime soon. Just because it's, I mean like I was like 15, 16 years old, and I had no experience with professional recording my guitar skills at that time were not something that I personally wanted to share with people. Yeah, and we were really just like practice, like practice, but one song from that actually did make Nihilara and it was actually, you actually, I'm proud you chose it as one of your favorites and that was Gusts of Wind. Yeah, which I actually was I, the original track was actually, so Mike would bring in his entire pedal board. And it is a really really well developed pedal board. He would just like mess around on it. And I'd be the, I'd be like sitting over at O'Brian from Radiohead on the knobs is like turning and like trying my like to mess over to just playing around with it. And when he was just, I think, I don't even know what he was doing. He was just like warming up or improvising at the start of gusts, and he did this like three minute little, four minute minutes of just like squirming around, and I took that and edited down to like minute 45 seconds, and because Gusts of Wind like all of the pre recorded tracks probably were the result of like an hour and a half of of of actual like sitting in a, in a studio and improvising and that that's like an entire session. And just I condensed it into like, I think it's seven, six minutes, and then years later, because I like that track so much. I went back and basically like after years of listening to it sat down and like, was that okay I need to add bass, I need to add some sleigh bells and French horn would sound really good on this too. And then I add, I, because I knew people would ask, eventually, like, so your name is Violincia, do you have violin on the album so I was like, yes, actually. I got it, I got it, I got a violinist in the end to perform on it and a cellist to perform on it, and then spent layered it up that resulted in the final project. But yeah, they're probably like in Gusts of Wind alone in the original track, they're probably like, I want to say 40 or 50 cuts that I made when I was like, 15 probably in the in the final like final demo version and then after that I recorded all this stuff on top of it. And a lot of it was just like, hey, that would be really funny and different. I'm going to do that.

[Aaron] You know I immediately thought that same thing too. Like oh where's the violin? Or you must be a violinist. You know so I thought of that. So we are going to get to Gusts of Wind specifically. And you're right It is one of my favorite tracks, it might be my favorite one on Nihilara, but yeah that is a really cool track and it's here, it's fun to hear the compositional process with that so I'm glad that you brought up the topic of the album as a concept. You know, in our preliminary meeting I asked you because you know I already listened to it a handful of times, it's probably should have said this earlier it's fully on Spotify for everyone to hear. And of course there will be links in all episode descriptions, social media posts, so on. The concept of the album, I had been, you know, as as music listeners or any analyst or you're trying to figure out what's going on in the music. Before we met, I was thinking, oh man, what's the story going on here, because it's a very dynamic set list that, when it's fun to listen to each track individually of course, but I would encourage listeners to sit from beginning to end, listening to all of them in sequence. And I would say especially because like the first track that you have on there, which is titled Over the Hills, really is like a prelude, it's like an introduction to the album. Because I could tell that there was a prelude, and it got kind of like the textures and the intensity of the sound,. And the intensity of the tracks was getting thicker as it went on and then the last track was kind of like a sendoff. I could tell that there was some very purposeful construction to the tracklist. And so I asked you, is there an explicit meaning to all of them and you said, well, not really, but that there are consistent aesthetic choices and thoughts and feelings throughout all of it. So can you talk a bit about that, Nihilara, as a conceptual entity?

[Lucy] Yes, to do that I think I have to kind of like, so basically when I first went into the studio to make this project, it was probably like fall 2022. I actually won, funny story, I won like two hours of free studio time from a thing with a TMIC open mic, they had, or no actually it was, it wasn't TMIC, it was, well it was, but like they were in collaboration with this recording studio in Tallahassee called Bez Productions. I apparently was the only one who filled out the contest form correctly so I won the two hours of free studio time and I was like, hey, this is, this would be a good opportunity to like go through some of that old material that I had and kind of spiff it up so I could release it. Originally I wasn't planning on it being an album, I actually just wanted to put out a single, but working in the studio I just was like, I gotta make an album. Like, and so it took about a year and a half and a lot of it was like me using, me learning how to use Pro Tools because if anybody has ever used Pro Tools before it's very steep learning curve. So, Nihilara, basically the concept of it, because I was, you know, trying to think of like any way that I could make it a story and, like I said, I'm very invested with the organization of tracks whenever I listen to like another project. I listened to how it like the entire album flows together. Even if there isn't a consistent story if it has like a sonic flow to it, then I think that would make a great album. Like Led Zeppelin IV is one of my favorite albums of all time. It's also one of the tightest most consistent track lists of any project I think that's ever come out. Like you have such a good balance of like soft moments and like really hard hitting moments and also moments you can dance to and like, you know, stare out and pretend you're like a mythical fairy and living in Middle Earth.

[Aaron] As you do. As you do.

[Lucy] Yeah, as I do, single handedly. Yeah, but I, that's that's what I think like makes a perfect album if you can like keep me entertained for 40 or 30 minutes. Then you really have a good project and like regardless of story or because people will want to make a story even if you don't have one. And I, when I was making Nihilara, my biggest, probably overarching theme was the tracklist needs to be concise and needs to work as a full piece of the album. And there has to be a reason that all of these songs are on the same label for me, and I kind of probably about August of last year I kind of had like a relapse of like this long running depression that I've, I've, I've, I've, that I've been dealing with for my entire life. And I kind of got into, because a lot of depression, depressive thoughts, lean into nihilistic thoughts, like nothing matters and like we're all here for nothing and blah blah blah. And I realized that so much of this line of thinking came from people who just, so much so much of it was just a subjective thing, and that nihilism as a concept is really just a means to spread misery. And I really don't want to, I want to talk about the music and not philosophy, but for me like there are no like actual nihilistic philosophers. The main people who identify as nihilists really have personal issues. Like even like people associate Fred, Friedrich Nietzsche with nihilism but he was actually an existentialist kind trying to rebuff nihilism. The title Nihilara came from my experiences over the last eight months, nine months, relating to, quote unquote, ideology, it's not really an ideology but that quote unquote ideology, and kind of like my fight to get out of depression. And that's kind of like what I saw as the overarching theme of the record which is like all of the things in life that are worth living for. Grant, like I didn't, I didn't write the record with that in mind, because obviously it's a collection of tracks that have been on my shelf for over a decade now, but when putting it together that was kind of like the concept that was in my head that I was working towards. So like, Over the Hills is this prelude that has to, you know, just this kind of grand, kind of like, it really does feel like you're frolicking over, like, kind of like The Sound of Music kind of thing. And then Ravens goes into feelings about not being able to sleep, basically, trying to escape your problems through like insomnia. I Deserve This clearly is like a politically motivated song that, so like, one thing that I like about it is that immediately the tone shift from Over the Hills to I Deserve This. Like, from this like really happy-go-lucky thing, immediately this gets cut off and like replaced by like this highly tense, anxious, like rising anxiety and panic attack. Because that's my life. And the entire album follows this like, these overarching themes that I did mainly when like recording and mixing, or I mean sorry mixing and mastering and leveling the entire project. So, and one thing that, one theme that I feel like does actually make an appearance in the actual sonic-like recording of it was driving, because I spent a lot of time, like in the times recording the album I was driving back and forth between Tampa and Tallahassee, often times late at night because I don't know if anybody's ever driven from Tampa to Tallahassee, like in the day, but like oftentimes your sun is right in your face because you're driving directly west or east.

[Aaron] Oh yes, I, yeah I know that very specifically.

[Lucy] So I'd be driving on pitch black and the last song on the album, Long Strip of Highway at Night was something that I had written when I was 16 after a kind of a bad experience that I had on a field trip. That's how I describe it. But like I rewrote the lyrics for the album. Probably last minute I rewrote the lyrics. I changed them to kind of like being this like escape from like depression, where like you're in this completely pitch black environment. And the only thing that like you see occasionally is just like headlights and taillights passing by you. And kind of this story of meeting somebody at a rest stop and like talking about it sure is dark outside and having the response to be well you know your headlights, they're taking you somewhere. You're kind of like in this uplifting optimistic or like hopeful message to the audience that it's not all black you have lights leading the way you're kind of. Everyone has lights leading their path, and it's a metaphor for obviously just hope for the future. And through all the darkness that is happening in the world right now especially given like the circumstances of our generation. I feel like there's a lot of sadness and despair. 

[Aaron] Yeah, and thank you for sharing all that, some of that, you know, personal and impactful things. I personally myself have had many years of struggle with depression and I can relate to the balancing act of not dipping too far into nihilism because as you say it can be very destructive to your own self, if you let that happen. And so maybe that's perhaps why I connected to the album before, you know, just sonically before I even started really understanding what it was about. But I can certainly feel that. And now so you gave a little bit of preview of how it's constructed, literally, with the tracks, and I want to focus on specifically, because I will very legitimately there's a lot to talk about here, we could spend many hours talking about the different parts of the album, because it is wonderfully put together. And as you said, I picked out three that were particularly my favorite and you just started talking about one of them, which is A Long Stretch of Highway at Night. This track has a beautiful rise and fall texture in the instrumentation. And it definitely tells a story also in like it's it's texture, not just with the lyrics, because there's a rise of fall, a climax of falling action and a conclusion. And the intensity is building in the texture every time the lyrics come back. And it's like this wave of emotions that keep coming and going, especially with, I really like perhaps it's the call the chorus or the post chorus with the vocals that are a little bit further back in the mix than up front. Really great stuff. And, you know, it's funny is because I've driven. Do you go up 75 or do you go on the toll roads, you go up 75. So maybe I connected with it because I've driven on that exact highway at that exact time of night and probably have been to the exact same rest stops so you're talking about.

[Lucy] The Gainesville WaWa, the famed. Maybe that's at like 1 am.

[Aaron] Yeah, yeah, so I, I feel as though a lot of other listeners will be able to connect to it, to the aesthetics of just the kind of uncanny landscape that is driving at night, especially on a long highway with all those different stops. And so thank you for sharing with us that I really, I really love that track. And so the next one I want to talk about, probably the one that perplexes me the most out of all the ones on the album, For Heather. So I'm going to ask you about the title, of course, so I want to know what's going on with that. But it's also it's also the longest track too it's a little it's almost nine minutes long. And it has a lot going on with it with its texture, and with its different elements. So that is to say, can you talk about For Heather, a little bit. 

[Lucy] Yeah. So, For Heather was, is different than some of the other songs on the album in that the riff was co-written by me and Mike, and not ever really finally recorded. It was just something that like I had stuck in my head that we had done. And it was kind of like running over and over again this dah dah dah dah it the when you originally wrote the riff. It changed forms many times I don't know where the specific, that specific like melody came from. Yeah, I know that, like, because I have like, I have like the, like the recording of like when we first came up with it. I don't know like where it specifically, it's a specific makeup came from I think it's just like a game of telephone almost where like I just set on my head this very specific flow of it. There's for a while that I didn't even know like what time signature it was in. But I settled, I'm pretty sure it's a 19/4.

[Aaron] Oh, 19/4, geez.

[Lucy] But it doesn't sound like it and that's, that's my favorite part about about the song is it sounds like it's in four four for any, for any listener would think that it would just be standard but if you try to count along to it you'll find, you'll find that it's just like switches up a lot. And that's that's that's what I like this, like very simple sounding, but actually very complex part of music that's like really accessible but like behind the scenes it takes like a billion years to do. A lot of, a lot of the time signatures on the album I specifically made that way because I thought it would be really funny for to get somebody to drum along to it. Yeah, with For Heather the, I was trying for a long time because I knew that I'd have to have lyrics for for the song and I was really into criminology when I was in undergrad and still am that's why I went to law school. It's one of the reasons that I went to law school, and there's one specific case that I didn't feel like I got nearly enough exposure and that was that I'd read about that, then that was the but in the 1970s there was this prolific, well, I don't even want to call him that because it sounds, there was this guy, this absolute literally the worst person like comically evil man named Fred West. And he was married to the, he and his wife Rose had committed some of the most depraved acts in the history of probably criminal justice, and I'm not going to repeat them here because this is like an academic setting.

[Aaron] Yes. 

[Lucy] A lot of them involved their children. And one of their daughters, whose name was Heather, was her story just like struck a chord with me when I learned it because she basically tried her absolute hardest to like escape from the situation. Like she told friends. She told school administrators. She tried to like move move out and get jobs elsewhere but they kept abusing her over and over again. And I remember one time she, she thought she'd get this job on the other side of the country, because she lived in England, she she thought she'd get she'd gotten a position, but they've, they denied her for it so she had to keep living at home and being abused by her parents, and she cried herself asleep at night. And it just like it really struck a chord with me so the song is about her experience and her story, except in real life, her parents ended up murdering her and burying them, burying her underneath their back patio and they used her death as actually an example to her other siblings, which is horrible. And I'm very glad that they eventually got put away for the rest of their lives. In the song, I changed it to Heather stabbing her father to death, because, like, considering some of what she had to go through it was, I think it, it's truly a just kind of like a cathartic feeling, and in the album, like it's not a happy feeling, definitely not because of the situation in general but and that's that's in the music, it's like it's not a happy chord there's actually a chord change right at the last moment. But it's more of like a relief, like, in that she is free from this situation that she found herself in. And I wrote this like, so I been in the song, it follows us, because I always knew that I wanted it to be like, it's kind of inspired by Led Zeppelin and this like long, like hard rock structure, I knew that I wanted it to be like that but I feel like the story is, the story is, I feel fits that the tone of the music perfectly in this like, very kind of solemn, but kind of driven atmosphere that like the solemn tense driven atmosphere that it creates. And I also added like my one of my favorite things to do is add like, like little sonic details in the background like there's one part specifically like right before, like right after this interlude where like it goes into the cello solo, where everything cuts out and you can actually hear like footsteps leading up to a door which opens and then the lyrics through the back door. And it's like it's a metaphor for some of the harder abuse that she went through, or was at the hands of because in this situation she escaped and managed to grab his garden shears, and that's what she used as a weapon to defend herself in this story. So this song  it's written in dedication to her even though it's, it's based off of the events of her life it's not like specifically, I thought it was more so in tribute of her. I was really, really proud of the final product, especially like how it transferred to Gusts of Wind, it made it completely recontextualized the beginning of that song which, like I said, was written years before, like, it was this was recorded, but it made it feel almost like a funeral march.

[Aaron] Yeah, I'm really glad you said that because for me, I, which I have to say, thank you for sharing all of that. That's, I think that's why it's important to ask the artist what's going on in their art because I wouldn't know that at all and so I will include links in the description of this episode to articles on about Heather and Fred West and so on. I just want to speak to how successful your intentions were because I saw not just the length, but like I said before I listened to it all the way through from start to finish, only in preparation of the questions did I pick out tracks individually, but when listening to the whole album, For Heather does feel like a pinnacle of the album, and then Gusts of Wind does feel like a postlude to For Heather. I'm not exactly sure how to describe it, but it feels like a continuation or like it's exactly what you were just describing it really does, Gusts of Wind does feel like a continuation or epilogue of For Heather. So I think you were incredibly successful in that light.

[Lucy] That's, that's what I really like about them because I mean that's basically a nine minute song like you were saying and a seven minute song but like together they don't feel anywhere near their length, and there wasn't necessarily a set story between For Heather and Gusts of Wind, however it feels like there should be. And I like that, because at the end of For Heather it feels like things are almost left a little unresolved, because there isn't really a, I mean, there's, the song resolves in its final chord but it's like a very kind of, there's not that kind of like emotional catharsis necessarily until Gusts of Wind. Yeah, it's an entire song of emotional catharsis. 

[Aaron] Yeah, yeah it's like, because, like, yeah like you're saying there, Gusts of Wind is like the contemplation of what you just went through with For Heather, it's like giving you time to absorb it and contemplate it, and it does give For Heather that conclusive build, which is one of the, I get a transitioning to Gusts of Wind, we've been talking about a handful of times here, but it, the slow climb, just building and building and building is really magical, it's one of my favorite parts of the album. I, in my ears saw For Heather and Gusts of Wind connected but I just, it's these sort of things that I, these sort of conversations and these sort of ideas is really what makes the magic happen with these ideas and also why I started this podcast. Just the, the, I, after we're done recording I'm going to go back and listen to it immediately because I love the idea that not only does it aurally connect and it fits, you know, internally, but emotionally and literally in the intentions. Well, as you say it wasn't completely intentional in continuing the story, but it was like a recovery from it. I just, I just think that's phenomenal, and I'm so happy I'm able to talk to you about that because that, I feel like, well I feel like most artists do things like that but I think listeners should be understanding and hearing that when they're interpreting it.

[Lucy] Actually, probably my favorite part of the album to recreate was probably that two and a half minute intro to Gusts of Wind.

[Aaron] That was an interesting change. It's like, I'm sorry to cut you off but yeah that's another question and I was just to phrase it, is that Gusts of Wind has a two and a half minute prelude almost to its own self. And then it cuts itself off, just like, just like the first and second tracks of the actual album like you were describing earlier. And so, yeah, there's this moment which I'm going to play right now for everyone. That it throws you back into a different feel two and a half minutes into Gusts of Wind it's like yanking you back. So so sorry to cut you off that I just want to contextualize it because that that is, I agree that's one of the coolest moments in the album but go on, go on. 

[Lucy] Yeah, um, that's another moment where that, what I liked about the song is its title actually perfectly describes I feel like the music on the record, on the on the record, on the, of the song, and that the improv because that song was entirely improvised, like I said, at least the demo track was. And it's it's like that because at the end of his at the end of that little interlude Mike stop playing.

[Aaron] Oh, on the flip side of a deep meaning to things, I also love it when there's this real practical reasons.

[Lucy] When he, he was kind of testing out his, his testing out the pedal that he was using, and he played a single note. And then he, he just like went into this, and then that was, there's a cut there. And then it goes, because he just did like he did that like multiple times in a row. But like I was, I was on the drums, because I, by this time I moved from the, the pedal board to the drum set, because I play the drums on the build part of the song. And I just thought, hey, it would be like, it's almost like this like the symbols are crash here in a classical piece so I did that. And I really liked the effect that it had because in my brain, it was kind of like going from this like subtle and prelude about rain, and because at the end of For Heather there's a, you can hear rain in the background of the piano chords that like kind of give a, an epilogue to the track to introduce Gusts of Wind, which is about like a storm. And after the opening which is like kind of doubles as a feeling like a, like a funeral march, and being this like uplifting, almost Christmasy sounding song. It cuts and that's when, in my brain, the thunder comes in with the some the cymbal crashes and the quick, like almost to coddled sounding guitar, guitar notes that like are, I code with this election, like, it almost sounds outdated, this electric thing. I think it adds to kind of like the sticky electric feeling of the track, and then that goes into the build part. Yeah, the that, that intro, that intro part that that took a very long time to get right. Because I had to get, I had to get a French horn player and I'd never, I'd never worked with a French horn player before and I was listening to the album and I thought this would be good with a French horn section because there seemed to be a part of the song that I thought was missing something in that certain notes didn't carry themselves like they did in my head. So I got French horn player and, and then I was also listening to it and thought, I need a violin player now. And then I added my, then I just like hummed over it like in the spur of the moment thing like, and put it together I was like, okay, that's good. Yeah, I really like the final product of it. Again, it's the fact that it was so kind of like spontaneously recorded. When listening to it is one of my favorite things about making music because that song in my head is inspired a lot by the song, After the Flood by Talk Talk. I don't know if you've ever heard it. 

[Aaron] I have not. 

[Lucy] It's 10 minutes and a lot of it is like rain sounds and like, it sounds like a drum loop. I'm not sure if it is a drum loop but it sounds so wet. And the aesthetic of the track is just so like, again, it's called After the Flood so it sounds like you're just like in this world of water and there are clouds all over the place and you're just waiting for the earth to dry. After the Bible, I'm not religious, but I really like the kind of atmosphere that was built on the track. If you can convey that kind of musical setting in the music you're making I think that that's a success.

[Aaron] I would agree. I would agree. It's like you said, it's one of the most magical and engaging parts of the whole album. You know, I'd love to keep talking about the different individual tracks because as you said the placement of each is very purposeful and so on. But for sake of brevity we're going to move on to our final section but I'm going to encourage people again at the end but go ahead and go listen to Nihilara, available on all streaming platforms that are linked in the description but we'll remind people again at the end. So moving on to our next segment, we talked a bit about this earlier. One thing I want to ask is, this is called the Theorist Composer Collaboration and, as I said earlier, I want to expand the composer part outside of institutional halls and so on. But there's a question of what do you refer to yourself as? So there's many different labels people can choose or rebuke composer, artist, producer, just plain, you know, just say musician, recording artist, so on. How would you describe yourself and secondarily does it matter so much?

[Lucy] I would describe myself as Lucy and...

[Aaron] Alright, that works, that works. 

[Lucy] I'm a musician, I'd say a musician. But also, I'm really into visual arts too, like I did all, I single handedly made all of our album art and all of our promotional materials and...

[Aaron] Like I said earlier, it looks beautiful. I really like it.

[Lucy] I travel a lot so I put together basically, it's not a, I wouldn't call it a photo collage, but a bunch of aesthetics that the albums, the songs in the album evoke for me. And I think Mike, one of my favorite things about that I did with it because I wanted to originally make the album cover just a shot, like a black image of a car passing with his headlights and it's very specific. And so, being what I wanted the album cover to be ended up being The Long Stretch of Highway cover for the single, but I ended up pivoting because I didn't feel like it was representative enough of the music as a whole. And I layered that kind of streak of light over the violin logo that I had made and turned it into the bow for the violin, which I liked a lot. And I feel like in the context of the record, like it's pulling across and making this like musical scene which is evoking all of this like colorful, like magical feelings and that's what the album cover represents to me. So I consider myself a musician but like I also, I don't know, photographer, visual artist, singer, vocalist, law student. How many things can one, can somebody do in a human life?

[Aaron] Yeah, well, you know I asked that because in my classrooms and in my classes, there's a lot of question of identity, labels, and so on. And so it's interesting here. It's just interesting to hear from a diverse viewpoint, what others may think, you know? So, so, speaking of diverse viewpoint, as you can probably see from the different people that I've had onto the show, and you know my background a little bit, I'm not very familiar with the scene that you occupy in the music industry. What is it like being an independent artist? You know, you work two years or a year and a half, two years, however long you said, on Nihilara and all the tracks in it. What is it like out there?

[Lucy] You kind of have to admit to yourself that you are creating music because you want to create music. If you go in wanting to be famous, then you're going to have a very hard time. Like everyone in the back of their head obviously like wants to be the next, I don't know, Nirvana or Billie Eilish or whatever musician that they are into that day. But in reality, like I think people talk about like right and wrong ways to get into music and I feel like the best thing to kind of focus on is just whether or not you enjoy being a musician. I don't think there's anything more to it. Granted, in our hyper capitalist world, it's gonna have, you're gonna need to make money and bureaucracy factors into decisions that you make, but if you really just want to be like a musician and you want to perform for people and you have this vision of what you want to do, then the only person really stopping you is yourself. But also, the only person motivating you is yourself. It's kind of a double edged sword. However, if there was no one willing to take that risk, I think obviously the world would be a much, much more boring, worse. If we didn't have musicians, what the hell would we be doing?

[Aaron] That's, that, now, that's.... 

[Lucy] I mean, who would the music industry be exploiting? 

[Aaron] You're right. I tried to remind some of my well, not that they don't acknowledge it, but I try to remind myself sometimes, I'm music theorist, I'm going to school analyzing music, someone's got to make the music to look at it, you know? Yeah, we would be missing out on a lot of art and culture if people didn't take that risk.

[Lucy] There are so many fantastic, I feel like a lot of people to like take that from the other direction and that they only listen to musicians that basically to hear the clout. People who listen to the Beatles because they have this entire legacy of success behind them, or people who listen to Taylor Swift because she's the most popular album on the, album, artists on the planet right now probably, or like you know people who listen to music not for the music but listen to it for its impact on culture.

[Aaron] ....and social status.

[Lucy] Yeah, and I've fallen into that trap. I'm saying that because I've fallen into that trap before too, where it's like, oh I got into Michael Jackson, not because I'm not saying, this is just an example, like Michael Jackson as a musician. And, like saying that I got into Michael Jackson because he was popular, rather than legitimately enjoying his music, or like people who stray away from music because it's popular. That's a whole different thing, like people who've never listened to like Olivia Rodrigo's latest album, which I think is pretty great, but because she's a pop artist, then it means that she's automatically not cool.

[Aaron] I agree. Yeah. 

[Lucy] Yeah. That being said, however, there are so many fantastic underground musicians that just go by the wayside and that you go to festivals and you see somebody and you're like, oh my god, she was fantastic. And maybe like, you bring up to somebody else and they're just like, yeah, how many followers does she have on Spotify. Yeah, it's like that's the point. She's a great artist. 

[Aaron] Yeah, well that doesn't change what the, that doesn't change the music.

[Lucy] I've been to more shows than probably anybody in Tallahassee over the last couple years, and there are, the Tallahassee music scene, the Florida music scene in general is just so, I feel like it has so much potential and so much just great stuff coming out. I recently heard about this new artist, for example, her name is Sarah Morrison, who I caught at the at a festival lately, the Words of the South Festival that I went to and it was just, she has this like great fusion of jazz and rock and pop. Her guitarist actually currently plays bass for Of Montreal, which I was like, wow, I didn't even, I didn't even realize that until I looked him up. And it said on his Instagram bio. But like you, when when like, it's that kind of those kind of experiences when you're at a venue or a concert festival, whatever, and you just see like this, you see something you've never seen before and to see something that just like blows your mind that I think really also makes music special and why we need more of a focus on independent artists and the music scene as a whole. And why I don't think it should be viewed as like so so so often people see it, see it as a competition. Like, I got a step above. You got to break omelets, a couple of eggs to make an omelet, but I don't know why we can't just celebrate fantastic music and have music be something that we hold high in culture, regardless of social status or where it comes from, because that's, I mean we make music for the music and not for the clout that comes with the cloud, or at least we should be. If we are to say that we make music for the music, then we should praise music for its composition.

[Aaron] I second that totally. Yeah, of course. Yeah, that was great insight. So, Lucy, I would go as to say head of Violincia here. What's next for you?

[Lucy] I'm back home for the foreseeable future. I planned to, St. Pete has a great music scene and I plan to, I plan to also go back up to Tallahassee to partake in the scene up there again because I'm so familiar with it. There are things in store for the next few years. And I have so much that I want to share with the community and so much that I hope to expose, like flip over the proverbial rock to reveal the insects underneath kind of situation. This is not the last time that the name Violincia here will prop up in these experiences. 

[Aaron] I'm sure. Yeah, I like the vagueness. It sounds like we got a lot more coming. And speaking of a lot more coming, what would be the best way for people to reach out to you. Of course, all your contact info links to the links to Nihilara, and all of your platforms will be available but what would be the best way for people to contact you for any questions, inquiries, comments? 

[Lucy] Yeah. Instagram seems to be the current method that everybody's using to for shows and bookings. People would say Tik Tok but people mostly listen to Tik Tok there to music there, and I'd say via Instagram at Violincia_ that's violin CIA underscore. No spaces all lowercase, and our links are all available for like, like you said, in the bio of this podcast, but thank you for giving me this opportunity. 

[Aaron] Yeah, of course. 

[Lucy] Yeah, it really is, it really is cool for, so much of music is just like so much work for so for such a for such an almost no response, and it really is cool for people to finally like listen to and give my thoughts on what I've spent so long cultivating. So, yes. 

[Aaron] Yeah. I'm very honored to have you on. And like I said before, you know, not that I have any given power, I really don't, I'm not even talking about the podcast but you know like I said before but with music theorists, when we choose to analyze, look at, talk about any kind of music, or if you're just a person out there a music enjoyer, what you share what you platform what you don't. We all have our own power in that way. And we should, as you said support artists in what they do. I'm happy to have you on with that. And if you were to, I'll give the last note to you, if you were to say to the audience anything about music, the writing process the industry, art, life anything you want to say well, what would that be?

[Lucy] I suppose that it's gonna suck. It's going to.

[Aaron] That's the best outro yet, that's the best outro. Yeah.

[Lucy] It's going to be really, it's, it's a, it's a uphill battle and it feels like a lot of the time, like you are spending a billion years working on stuff, and you listen to your own music to the point of hating it because if you listen to anything, 100 quadrillion times, you are going to. It's going to start to sound monotonous and samey and you're going to, it's like semantic dissociation. But if you, if you once you're kind of out of that and you realize like what you've produced, it's the best feeling in the world. Like, it really really is like, because I'm turning 25 in two weeks. I was worrying about that for a long time, because my goal for Nihilara was to get it out for my birth, my 25th birthday, and so I'm proud. I'm proud of myself for what I've accomplished rather than for, you know, being rather than being like anxious about getting like to a certain age or any circumstances about my life. I'm more proud that I was able to create something that other people can enjoy because that's that's why we create music in the first place is for ourselves, for other people, and for general well being. Anybody who tells you that you should quit because you're not successful enough, you're not famous enough, you haven't made you haven't made enough money or, etc etc is wrong, you should make music because you want to make music.

[Aaron] I can't put it much better. Excellent. Well, so this is, this has been the episode, and Lucy from Violincia. Thank you so much for coming on to the Theorist Composer Collaboration and sharing your debut album Nihilara. Again, links in the description, please go check it out, listen it. Listen to it from top to bottom and one sitting I promise it's worth it. Lucy, thank you very much for coming on.

[Lucy] Thank you for having me.

[Aaron] Hello, this is Aaron again, I want to thank you for listening to this episode of the Theorist Composer Collaboration. Another big thank you to Lucy from the group Violincia for joining the program, alongside their debut album Nihilara. In the description of this episode, regardless of the platform you are on, there will be a link to Violincia's link tree, which contains their email, social media, and the available platforms to stream the album Nihilara, which is available in full. I would appreciate it if you could show them support, and especially by streaming Nihilara. Violincia's information will also be readily compiled on the corresponding contributor page on our host website as well. I feel very fortunate that came across the posters for Violincia and their debut album around the music building of Florida State a couple months ago. I think this experience for myself really does rebuff what Lucy was talking about near the end of the interview. There was so much amazing art and, in this case, music out there begging to be listened to and especially appreciated. The sound of Violincia was a unique and gratifying experience for myself. I am so excited to share it with others. I mean, really, this is exactly the sort of reason why I even started this podcast. The meanings, stories, intertextualities, and intentions in a body of work, in this case an album, is a world of artistic expression that makes me feel so excited and encouraged to promote new art and artists. I also have to say, I returned to the album after the interview and after gaining the personal insight from Lucy on the construction of it, and I really have to agree with what we were discussing on the track dynamics between For Heather and Gusts of Wind. And being completely honest, I did start to get a bit into my feelings during the dramatic climb of Gusts of Wind when everything was put into context. Please, after the rest of this outro of course, go and stream Violincia's debut album, Nihilara, doing the artist a favor but also yourself as it is an incredible work. Thank you again to Lucy for coming onto the program and sharing Nihilara. For further updates and notifications on the Theorist Composer Collaboration, make sure to subscribe to our email listing on the homepage of our host website and follow our Instagram and Facebook pages. Relevant links are in the description. You can also listen to future episodes through our host website, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, and YouTube. So make sure you subscribe to the platform of your choosing. Again, all relevant links are in the description. TCC episodes are posted weekly on Mondays, and don't miss our weekly blog posts, which go live a few days after a new episode is added. I am also excited to promote that our next episode is, again, going to be a little bit different than what has been featured on so far on this podcast. We are finally putting even more collaboration into the namesake of this show, as next week will not be hosted by me. It will instead be hosted by my friend and fellow music theorist, Brittney Pflanz. Brittney will be sitting down with the composer Cameron Gwynn to discuss his piece, Hibernaculum. I am very excited to have another theorist be part of this collaborative venture of a podcast and Cameron's piece is a unique experiment in a diverse timbral landscape, and you won't want to miss either of them on the next episode. But, until then, this is Aaron, and thank you for joining the TCC.